OMGiDRAWEDit

In this episode, we're featuring an intimate conversation with the enigmatic artist known as OMGiDRAWEDit. George, as he's known outside the digital canvas, gives us a peek into his world of maximalist art and humor-filled scenes that defy conventional style.

OMGiDRAWEDit talks about his evolution from commission-based corporate work to forging his own path in the NFT space. We'll explore the therapeutic nature of creating art, the shift from digital to physical works, and his dedication to authenticity over chasing trends.

We also dive into the nuances of the art market in the age of social media and digital currencies, discussing the impact of financial pressures and public scrutiny on artists' mental wellbeing. OMGiDRAWEDit reflects on the highs and lows of rapid success, the challenges of managing a webshop, and his upcoming projects meant to bridge the physical and digital worlds of art creation.

From discussing the role of personality traits like ADHD in the artistic process to walking the streets for inspiration, OMGiDRAWEDit reveals how his unique art style is informed by everything from charity shop finds to the taste of too-real food.
Grab your sketchbook, tune in, and let's go Behind The Screen with OMGiDRAWEDit. You might just discover that the finest art doesn't always hang in galleries—it's sometimes found in the most unexpected pixels of life.

Episode10: Gramajo (@0xGramajo) is joined by OMGiDRAWEDit (@omgidrawedit).
Date Recorded: March 15, 2024

00:00 Passion for art and photography, sketchbook storytelling.
09:52 Artist discusses transition to NFT space.
13:45 Focus on NFT work, established client relationships.
18:04 Enjoying small artistic endeavors and simple lifestyle.
23:44 Observing, drawing, and memory shape artistic style.
28:06 Social media algorithms shape our art creation.
36:55 Struggle with success, need for self-care.
38:45 Struggling with vulnerability and criticism in art.
46:10 Internet strangers easily turn against artists financially.
50:51 Concerned about financialization of crypto and art.
54:21 Continuing art, supporting collectors, and freedom.
59:16 Excited about connections and upcoming art display.
01:06:23 Closed webshop due to crypto success, reopening physical shop.
01:11:24 Struggling to finish bedroom nostalgia project; future plans.
01:15:44 Concerns about algorithms and reach on social media.
01:21:44 Even cheap pizza is still really good.

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Music by: Lakey Inspired

Transcript

0:00

There's a lot of, like, financial stuff as well that nobody really knew. And, like, I couldn't get an accountant in the UK. I couldn't get a bank account. And, like, people, like, make, like, you know, you'd have people on Twitter going like, why do you need a bank account? It's. It's crypto. And it's like. Because unfortunately, I'm not a non. GMGM. Welcome back to another episode of behind the screen with Gramaho. I'm your host, Gramajo, a crypto enthusiast that has been in the space since 2012 and joined the NFT space in 2021. In this podcast, we unravel the stories, the insights, the secrets of top tier artists, avid collectors and innovative builders shaping the digital frontier, better known as Web three. This week's episode is very special to me. George, or, oh, my gosh, Drada, is one of those artists that when I first joined the space back in 2021, he was all the Raven Tezos. Everybody was trying to get one of his bedroom series pieces. It's an artist that I've admired from afar for a very long time, and this is a very special episode for me. I'm happy that I got to do it. Thank you, George, for doing this, for opening up, for talking about the highs, the lows that you've experienced in the last couple years. Yeah. So let's dive in. Hope you guys enjoy it. So, yeah, do you want to. Do you want to give me an intro of yourself? Up to you of how much doxing you want to do, but, yeah, do you want to just give me an intro of yourself? Yeah, sure. So I am known as. Oh, my God. I drawed it in the art space, but, yeah, you can call me George. Awesome. And you're from the UK, right? I am indeed, yeah. Southwest UK, near a place called Cornwall, which quite a lot of people usually have heard of. Cornwall. It's like quite a nice coastal area. We're about an hour from Cornwall, but we're about two and a half, 3 hours from London, so, like, it's a really nice place in the southwest. Yeah, that's awesome. I have heard Cornwall, so I follow the Premier League a lot. Oh, cool. Yeah, that's how I end up knowing a lot of my geography of the UK is mostly through or not even the UK, but just in general from sports as a whole, which helps. Yeah. So. And you've been an artist before Web three, right? Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I've been doing creative. Like, I studied creative subjects at school and then university. Well, college, actually, and then university. So I've been doing kind of creative stuff my entire life, really, but started focusing specifically on kind of illustration and drawing when I went to university, which was when I was sort of 26, 27, and I'm 37 nearly now. So, yeah, been, been sort of drawing full time professionally for the best part. Ten years. Yeah, I saw that as well, that you had been doing this now for over ten years, which is impressive, man. Yes. It feels like it's real now. Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. Did you, let's see. So did, so you went to school for art or did you just go to school for not art? So I did art subjects at college after high school. I know things are like, it's confusing. Like, the UK high school and college is like different ages, I think, to quite a lot of other countries. But I did film and video and photography as my kind of chosen subjects at college, art subjects, and I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed them. But the thing that I really enjoyed the most after studying those subjects was the kind of sketchbook storyboarding work that went along with it. And I think that's when I realized that I was kind of, like, more interested in the, in the sort of drawing elements. And I also realized, well, I was talking about my photography a little bit the other day, and I don't do really any photography anymore, if I'm completely honest. But, you know, apart from the kind of stuff that everybody does, like a few phone photos, but I used to set up for my photography projects, one of the things I did was make scenes that were quite detailed with, like, objects and, and detritus and stuff. And I realized that that's kind of, like, exactly how I draw now. So I obviously have the same style even across, like, the different mediums, which I totally forgotten about. But, yeah, I was kind of looking at some of my old photography and it was like we kind of filled this basement with junk. And for one of my projects, and I was like, that's kind of how I, you know what my drawings are like now. Yeah, it's quite interesting to look back at that. But, yeah, I kind of studied those and just decided that the drawing parts were what I really liked and kind of moved on with that as I decided to go to university at a bit of an older age, I did have a chunk in the middle where I was a hairdresser. So I was a hairdresser for ten years, almost ten years, and just realized that that wasn't for me. But again, it's like, you know, I've always just been doing something that's got, like, a kind of creative output that's quite tactile. Like, I like using my hands. So, yeah, that's, that's kind of how it went. Yeah, that's. It's interesting hearing that because, yeah, your, your art definitely has a lot of detail. That's what I've kind of always liked about it. It's. It really sets the scene, especially for the bedroom series. And the Tesla's ones that you have. Those are really nice. I'm always. Thank you. Staring at those. And then I always find something new that I didn't notice before, you know? Yeah. Which is like, honestly, what I've really tried to do with my illustration work. I think I have this maximalist style. Obviously, that that is, you know, you only have to look at it to see that. But I really enjoy filling the scenes in a way that, like, you get that repeated viewing pleasure out of it. Each time you go back, you maybe find something new. And I also like to kind of sometimes purposely make things like, I'll have certain pieces where characters are, like, walking off the scene and things are happening just like, not quite in view, kind of cropping out stuff that some people would, you know, traditionally, like from a compositional point of view, you would, like, try and keep in the image. But I quite like this idea of, like, allowing the viewers to kind of look at the piece and wonder, like, what's continuing on in that world outside of the image. And it's that kind of, like, desire to make people want to keep coming back and looking at the work over and over and always find a new thing that really appeals to me. And I guess, I don't know. I suppose mines are dynamic, aren't they? And I think that you always want to be having something that can keep moving. And for me to make something interesting for myself, it has to be over the top, covered in details and lots to look at. And I think that's maybe my own kind of ADHd or something, but it's. It's kind of how I like to make work. So I, even when I've made stuff that's more minimal, I've looked at it and been like, there's too much empty space, like, I need to fill it. And I guess that's kind of how my style has formed itself in a way, you know? Yeah, no, I know what you mean. And sometimes it's funny to hear you say, like, it could be a little bit of your adhd or kind of your personality. Seeping, into the art itself. Sure. Yeah. No, I think that's hilarious because I sometimes I'm kind of, like, a little bit the same, too. Like, I have a little bit of shiny, shiny object syndrome. And sometimes when pieces or canvases are too minimalist, I struggle to. To connect with them. Sometimes. Sometimes it's like I'm able to kind of connect with it pretty quickly based on either colors or what's kind of there if it's abstract. But, yeah, for years it's. I could stare at it for a long time, I would say, because there's a ton of details in it, which I like, you know, some people might say it's too busy. Yeah, sure. You know, but for me, it's like, it's good. Yeah. So let's see, you've been in the space now for. So you've been an artist for ten plus years. Do you do any corporate work or is it mostly just for yourself? Yeah, I mean, I did. I was working mostly through, like, commissions, and I've always sold prints as a secondary thing or. Well, I suppose it was one of the primary aspects of my income before the crypto scene. But, yeah, I've worked on commission based works for clients and companies and stuff before. And that's one of the main reasons why I enjoyed working in the NFT space so much, is because obviously, when you're an artist and you have kind of vision for your work, you can often be, like, held back by how the client wants something to be. And quite often people will approach you and ask you to do something, and then they approach you because they want your style, but then when it actually comes to the crunch, they sort of, like, want their style but done by you. And sometimes that can be a really hard thing to kind of meet in the middle. And then obviously there's pay, you know, the kind of way that it works from a payment perspective, because people, people generally either don't have a clue how much, like, a private commission or a business commission would cost, and especially like, a smaller, you know, smaller companies that don't do it as often. And they'd approach me and say, like, can you do this piece? And it would be something that would take me like, 50 to 90 hours, especially back in those days, because I do work a lot quicker now, obviously, but back then when I was still kind of getting, you know, getting more professional, I suppose you could say, I would have people say, like, can you do this piece? And they would want it, like, next week, and it would be like 90 hours work and I'd just be like, you completely lost the plot if you think that that's going to happen. And it's very frustrating because you want to say yes to as many opportunities as you can, but at the same time, like, people just don't have a clue about how long things take. Like, and it's not just about pen on paper time either, you know, it's about, like, especially if I draw something like the piece that you can see on the camera behind me that took me a lot of time to draw. And also you're trying to find all of these objects as well. It doesn't just immediately all come to my mind. I have to allow that percolation of all the different themes and objects to come to me over a bit of time as well. If you add all of the time spent, like, researching, I suppose you could say, or like, gathering ideas and then pen on paper time, it's like a lot, you know, and people tend to not have the ability to afford that. And some do, and you do get some commissions, obviously, but it's always difficult. And I found a lot of the time, most of the time, it would be like a lot of emailing that ended up going nowhere and that was half my time. And then obviously, we came into the sort of 2021 where the NFT scene obviously went bananas. And the best thing about that for me was being able to just make the work I wanted to make. And then because of that, I can really make the things that are about me and share my stories. And then that tends to be the stuff that other people connected with. And you just don't get that when you're doing like a corporate logo or something that's just with a bit of color in it or, you know, my, my whimsical style, but with their kind of idea. And it just never felt like I was making art in the same way that I do now. Yeah. Do you think web three enabled you to be able to turn down a little bit more of the corporate style? Oh, or like some of those corporate works? 100% I like, I really, really even now can still, still in a position where I can cherry pick things a lot more and also just be a bit more realistic, I suppose, about like, how much things will cost and, yeah, generally, like, I actually tend to now what I've done is like, just still only really do client work for clients that I had before that I enjoyed working for. So there's like a few coffee company because I'm really into coffee and there's a few coffee companies that have, like, repeatedly got me to do bag designs and like, some merch and stuff for them over the last kind of five years. And I really like doing that because I like the kind of, there's a bit of, like, scratching each other's back in that circumstance as well because I also like to work for people where I feel like I, rather than worrying so much about money, I can be like, how about you give me, like, the coffee for free forever? And like, that's, you know, I think that's great. So I have those kind of relationships with a few clients that I still continue working with them, but generally, like, unless it's something that's going to, like, actually change my life and also is an amazing idea or project or concept or company, like, I just probably will not bother unless it's, like, really either easy or I have, like, a nice empty bit of space. And to be honest, like, I've been so busy the whole time with, since crypto, like, I still get so many inquiries with regards to, like, me wanting to, you know, people wanting me to do stuff in that space that I kind of still feel like I'd rather just focus there. Cause I've just generally, apart from a few, like, ups and downs, like, generally, I've had a way more enjoyable career since I've been working in the NFT space, both in terms of, like, talking to people. Like, I mean, that's the main thing as well, isn't it? Like, I literally love talking to people about my work. And as you know, you're saying, like, I really like to make these stories that are about myself and then see how they connect to others. And, like, that conversation is really enjoyable for me. And you just don't, you know, you don't get that with commercial client work, so. And I'd rather have the nice conversations and talk about art with people than I would necessarily, you know, do some big corporate job that paid a load of money, but, like, was totally soul destroying. So, yeah, it's never really been about money for me. So it's like, just do the things that make you happy more. You know, I've really realized that over the last couple of years with my own kind of struggles and family stuff that have happened, and, like, I just realized that sort of, like, life's too short. And at the end of the day, I'd rather be making the art that I want to make than the art that other people want me to make. Yeah, no, 100%. I agree with that. And I'm glad that web three has enabled you to be a little bit more selective of your corporate work and stuff like that. Sure. Did you end up. So, obviously, since the market's been a little bit down for the last, let's say, 18 months or 24 months, did you end up going back a little bit more into the corporate world now that NFTs have kind of cooled off or. Yeah, I did. So I have done some more stuff that I didn't think I'd be doing again, but, like, a little bit less, like, kind of corporate stuff, but, like, doing more things, like markets. And I used to do loads of art fairs and markets and just, like, fail prints in person because, again, it's like a really nice way to interact with people and sell your work as well. And I kind of used to do that quite a lot. And then when the NFT stuff happened, I just stopped doing anything else apart from that. And then during the kind of quieter time, I've been, like, I've been using it as an opportunity to kind of experiment myself and make different stuff as well as kind of doing some more, like, physical painting. And I had a really good moment where I had a studio that was quite spacious for a little bit about, just about a year, maybe a year ago, a little bit longer. We had, like, just a big room in this place. We kind of still have a nice ish room now, but this room is tiny and, like, doesn't have, I don't have the space for, like, making a mess in the same way. But, yeah, it was a really nice moment where I was able to kind of take a bit of a step back from the kind of the really digital stuff and mess around a bit and, you know, made some pretty mental stuff and, like, stuff that I'll, you know, I'll never show anyone else, but it's just, like, therapeutic for me to slap some paint around, you know, and, yeah, just like, did a lot more fairs and markets again, and kind of got out and spoke to people and sold prints that way. Kind of like anything to not have to go back into the sort of commercial work, basically. Like, you know, I would kind of do anything I can in a way, to sort of not have to do that. Obviously, if it got to a point where I really was, like, desperate, I guess I would have to start reaching out to some of that stuff again. But, like, I just prefer working the way that I'm working now. And, like, I have a pretty, you know, I have a pretty frugal lifestyle, so I'm not, like, desperately trying to, like, reach huge riches. So I'm like, as long as I can kind of keep my lights on and make art, like, I'm pretty happy with that. And even more so after, like, some of the things I've learned about myself over the last couple years. You know, I think, like, a lot of the time, people's priorities can be in the wrong place, and I'm just, like, happy to still be, like, able to make art and enjoy that, you know? Yeah, yeah, agreed. I think before we kind of jump into some of the things you learned in the last couple years since being in this space, I wanted to get into just a couple things about your art. How would you define your art and kind of what's you were talking about kind of like, spreading out in the previous workspace. Yeah. What. What are, what are your, like, sources of inspiration? Do you, like, do you find yourself having, like, a ton of books everywhere, like, out to get kind of inspired or a bunch of knickknacks or. Yeah, you know, kind of what. What is your style and kind of what is that process of getting inspiration? Sure. So it's kind of a, like, it's a difficult one, really, to answer, in a way. Like, I obviously have this site kind of say it's like a maximalist, I guess it's like, world building. It's quite a classic illustration style in a way. Like, it's, you know, I have, like, black line work that surrounds every image, and, and then I fill those lines with color. So it's kind of like this. It used to be very pen on paper, and now I have the same kind of techniques, but I use an iPad. So where I was kind of scanning in a page that I would have drawn, like an inked, you know, an inked page scanned in, put into Photoshop, take the background out, color digitally. I can now do that all in one go on an iPad. So it's like, really all that. My style has kind of never changed. In a way. I've gotten better at drawing, but, like, the, the way that I've drawn has always been the same. And, yeah, I just like to draw these kind of, like, crazy scenes, world building scene, full of details and characters and, like, as much kind of humor as I can, as well as kind of, like, underlying concepts around various different subject matters. And with regards to inspiration, like, it's kind of like anything, isn't it? It comes from everywhere, really. I look at art, I go out and look at, you know, I go on a lot of walks. And one of the things that really used to inspire me would be kind of, like, object like documentation that I used to do, and I don't do it so much anymore. And I kind of was thinking the other day when I was having a call with the guys at the tickle, and I was talking about, like, how I used to do that and I'd like to do it again more. And I think it's also actually this kind of approach that maybe sort of created my style as well, which I think is really cool and interesting. And, you know, I've got quite a unique illustration style, I suppose, like, people can always recognize that it's me when they see my pieces. And, and I always get asked, like, how do you find your style? And, like, how do you develop your own style? And I think for me, one of the things I used to do is I would go and, like, document objects in kind of charity shops and antique shops and thrift stores and stuff like that. And I would, like, sometimes I would, like, sketch things directly. I used to go to the museum. We have quite a cool museum in our town as well. And I used to sometimes go to the museum and, like, draw all the objects in the displays. And I had this kind of approach of, like, if I could think of something interesting to draw, I would try and draw it just without looking at the thing. So anything that I thought of, I would just be like, right, I'm not going to look the thing up. I'm just going to try drawing it first. And I would draw it. And quite often it would be like, it would look wild, but, like, especially if it's something I've never drawn before. And, like, it's weird how, like, sometimes in your memory, you think you can see something and you start to draw it, and it just doesn't come out right at all. And I used to kind of, like. So I would think of the thing, draw it, then I would go back and I would look at the thing for real and, like, you know, use a reference photo or go and look at this thing in real life. And I would draw it from that, you know, from actually having the image in front of me. And then you have the two next to each other, and it's like, right, okay, you've got this first one that looks insane, the second one that looks kind of quite a lot like the thing. And then I would try to revisit a couple days later or even, like, the next day, draw the thing again without the visual, you know, the reference material. And then that one is always the one that would be like, really cool because it's kind of a bit of me, but also, like, the memory of the thing that I drawn from reference was still there. And then I think, like, that's really how my style developed because I used to do this a lot, and I used to kind of keep sketchbooks of loads of objects in. And I had a few books with, you know, I had a book, I think it was called, like, 1001 crazy hundred objects or something like that. And it's like, just allowing all this stuff to kind of bleed into my psyche kind of allowed me to then build scenes with, like, crazy amounts of stuff in them. And, yeah, that's kind of. That's kind of how it happened, I think, and, like, yeah, how my sort of style developed from that. Because I've never really liked to use reference too much. I do use it for stuff that I, like. Really don't know what the thing looks like or you, if I need a bit of a helping hand with some stuff. But I've tried to allow so much stuff just come from my imagination, and then that's how my style is me. And I think that because of that and because of not really necessarily looking too much at other stuff or other artists work or trying to follow, like, trends that come. I mean, it used to happen a lot before crypto and nfts. Like, without Instagram, you'd see so many people that would, like, you get an artist on Instagram that's, like, blowing up, and then suddenly you'd get all of these people, like, imitating that artist and blowing up as well. And it's kind of really easy to want to just be like, well, I'll draw like them as well. But that was never really what I wanted to do. And then I purposely made it my way to not look at other stuff when I was drawing my things. And then the things that I drew really felt like they came from me rather than, like, sort of replicating other people's work. And I guess that is how I developed a style that is then kind of uniquely me. No, I love to hear that, man. Cause, you know, as a couple things that stood out to me was, I feel like sometimes what I kind of heard from what you were saying is that sometimes using the reference material is sort of, like, limits your creativity. Like, you feel like you have to draw it close to the real thing, you know, and kind of doing it off the top of your head kind of lets you break some of those rules or boundaries of the reference image and put it more in your style and the fact that you were able to, you know, draw your version, draw the reference, the one that's closer to the reference. Take a break, whatever that break may be. Sometimes it could be like, you know, like you said, a day or even longer, and then come back to it. And then that's the version that you feel, you know, that resonates with me because that's kind of how writing and photography and, like, that feel like that to me, too. Like, sometimes I have to. It's rare for me to get things right the first time. You know, it's like practice. And so that stood out to me. And then the other thing that stood out to me was kind of like, the Instagram influence photography is the same way. So I noticed that, too. Like, I. People would start taking pictures during golden hour, blue hour, and then the meta was like, everybody's now taking pictures of something during golden hour, or, like, traffic during golden hour, or the boats during golden hour, and then that becomes the thing. Everybody gets popular on Instagram, and you're like, well, I could do that. And it's very easy. But then at the same time, you become like. And there's no denying we become slaves to these algorithms because of the fact that they decide that similar stuff will rise. And I think that there's all. So social media is so designed to hit us, get our dopamine response and all that, and it's totally fucked, to be honest. It's just, you've got to fight back against that if you want to make art that's truly yours, you know? And just, you know, if you make art that's truly yours and people don't like it, it doesn't matter. Like, better to be honest and truthful to yourself and make art that's really you, than it is to make art that's somebody else and then get popular because you're copying someone else's ideas or style, you know? And I'm not saying that people shouldn't do that to develop their own style, if that's how it works for them. But I've been really fortunate that, like, my imagination is just, like, it's disgusting in some ways because, like, my imagination is so over the top and so crazy and has been since I was a kid, that actually, that has been something like one of the factors that's probably dragged me down a lot in my life as well. Like, overthinking things and worrying about things that weren't real because of that, you know, that door being open, but at the same time, that door is what allows me to kind of have these crazy ideas for, like, scenes and crazy amounts of ideas for each scene as well. You know, I remember at uni, my teacher was like, you've put more items and sort of objects and interest into this one drawing than I've seen, like, some students put into, like, their entire year. And I was just like, they were like, how do you come up with this? And I was like, it just happens for me. And, like, I'm so grateful for that because it's obviously allowed me to make art that's kind of, again, like, it's my art, but at the same time, that bit of my brain is open. And also from there comes some other stuff that's, like, a bit dark. And if that kind of overwhelms me, then that problematic in itself, you know? But, yeah, you know, yeah, I think I wanted to talk about that a little bit now if it's okay with you. But, you know, one of the questions I had was kind of like, you know, Tezos 2021 was. Was kind of a, like, it was a vibe. Let's just say that, you know, yeah, 100% with Henry. Yeah. And that's how I actually discovered you. I don't know if you know if you knew that, but, like, when I first got into nfTs, I was in the e space for, like, I don't even know, probably like two weeks. And then gas was just, like, horrendous. I think I minted something and it cost like$500 plus and just gas fees. And I was like, this is, this is not. I don't want to be in this thing. Like, this is ridiculous. I don't care how popular they are. And then I found Tezos, and literally the two first artists in the Tezos space that I kind of, I would say, noticed and recognized and I liked the style was lucres and yours. So, like, I think you were in the middle of your bedroom series, or you were very popular, at least in my neck of the woods that I was in Tezos. Your art was very popular. So I know you had a lot of success in Tezos, and then you did the Tez arts or the fuckers, which got really popular as well, too. Like, I think those were Tezos was like, what, $5 or something crazy. And those are going for like 2300, 400 tezos. Kind of. How was that for you mentally? Like, having that level of success? And then I think you've said that, like, in the last couple years, it's been a little bit rough for you. Like, you know, what exactly transpired or. Yeah. Basically, I think what happened, there's so many kind of, like, little things that were happening, and it was kind of growing. It's growing, growing, growing. And you kind of keep pushing it down and trying to pretend that it's all going to be okay. But, like, the first thing is that I think that it's not normal. And I think this is kind of probably exclusive to the NFT scene, but it's not normal to go from somebody who's kind of like, you know, I checked Twitter kind of every day or whatever for however long I've been on there, many years before I was involved in. In nfTs. And I'd post my art and, like, you know, get a couple of likes, and a few people say, this is cool. You know, haven't seen something like this before. Do you do this? Do you do that? Whatever, you know, pretty minimal stuff. And then, like, started minting nfts. And then kind of two weeks after that, that fast, like, my following my followers on Twitter just, like, were just going insane, and it became kind of all consuming, you know? And at the same time, everybody's kind of, you know, as you're an art, you're an artist in this kind of what feels like a digital renaissance, and, like, you're part of this kind of underground punk scene, which is awesome, and everybody's really cool and you're having an amazing time, but at the same time, you're, like, so deeply integrated in that wave as well that you're kind of forgetting that, like, well, real life exists and, like, so many things. And I'm sure it's the same. I mean, I'm saying I'm sure it's the same. Like, I know it's the same because I spoken now to so many people that were. That were involved in that bit. Like, I'm still friends, and, you know, recently, recently had quite a. Quite a deep heart heart with pixel four, who I met in Miami in 2021, just before I had, like, basically a mental breakdown. And when we were there together, he was having a really hard time as well, but, like, didn't realize, I don't think, either. And when we just went to Paris, we were both in Paris, and, like, it was the first time I'd seen him again in person since. And we kind of had this heart to heart, and it was like, man, we were, like, fucked, and we should have spoken to each other about it at the time because I think so many artists were also going through this, and it wasn't natural to be honest, like, I don't think it's natural to go from, like, an actual nobody to kind of, like, suddenly everyone's interested in you effectively overnight. And obviously, like, there's. There's the financial aspect of it as well. You feel, like, obliged to so many people. And also, you get in at that time, you know, there were people that were. There were people. You try and do everything you can as somebody that, like, doesn't know how to code or, like, know really anything beyond kind of minting the art on, on hen and you try and do everything you can to try and keep as many people happy as possible. And, like, no matter what you did, you couldn't keep everybody happy. And, like, people were sending horrible messages and abuse because they'd missed out on a mint. Like, and it's just, like, I think people forgot, like, that there were kind of just humans behind that were, like, suffering quite badly. And then on top of that, there's a lot of financial stuff as well that nobody really knew. And I couldn't get an accountant in the UK. I couldn't get a bank account. And people, you'd have people on Twitter going, like, why do you need a bank account? It's crypto. And it's like, because unfortunately, I'm not a non, like, I have a massive tax bill and, like, I don't want to go to jail because of, like, all of this shit messing up. And I also was somebody who had no money before. Like, absolutely no money. So, like, I'm watching the Tezos, for example, like, crash in value and I'd held so much of it. And I'm looking at this tax bill that I actually can't afford because the value of the coin has gone down so much. And, like, that in itself is, like, a humongous stress on somebody. Like, financial worries are always a huge burden on anyone anyway, so this was happening underneath, and then on top, you've got everybody coming at you with every possible thing. And so many people that came and interacted with me for the first time after tezzards that just had totally missed this whole concept of what I was trying to do and what I believe in and what my morals are and, like, the whole point of what tezzards was supposed to be, which was, like, literally the antithesis of, like, pfps and, like, trying to build something that really actually looked good on the chain that was kind of actually punk. And, like, that was totally missed by so many people because they came in after and then they're coming at me with, like, when are you going to make sunglasses? And I'm like, I literally can't imagine anything worse than putting myself making stuff that's going to end up in a landfill so that you can, like, have some junk that you don't really want. And my entire brain was just getting completely turning into scrambled egg. And it just, you know, I just started waking up, like, having real, you know, physical anxiety where I was, like, shaking, having panic attacks, like, and then I started having really thoughts that you don't want to be having. And at that point, I was like, damn, was this really worth it? And just after speaking to my kind of in real life friends and family and doctor, they were like, you need to take a step back from this thing for a bit to kind of get back to baseline. And that's basically what I had to do. And the truth is, is that I think that if more artists had spoken about how they felt at the time, a lot of us probably could have helped each other out. But I think that there's a real problem with discussing your struggles online. It's just, you know, it's scary to be vulnerable online, and everyone's so cynical as well that, like, it's hard to necessarily, you know, you try and be put out some honesty, and sometimes it still feels like people just think you're bullshitting. And then you just get to a point where you're like, you know what? Like, this isn't worth my life, so I'm gonna just take a step back for a bit. And that's basically pretty much what happened to me, you know? And like I say, it really happened to quite a few people. I think it maybe happened to me a bit worse because of the fact that I had tried to, like, make a art focused PFP that was supposed to be, like, you know, it was really supposed to be this kind of, like, humorous, like, kind of, it was supposed to be poking fun at the whole concept. And while I think a lot of people that did get that, the problem is always the few people that don't, and it's always those few negative comments and negative interactions that stick with you, isn't it, in life? And it's a shame that we're built that way, but, like, you could have, like, a million people say that you're the best thing ever, and then you have one person tell you that you suck, and it's that one suck that you, that you can't sleep at night because of, you know, and it's just stupid human brains, like, really stupid human brains, but it's just the way it is for me anyway. Maybe not everyone's like that, but, you know, I am an, I am a sort of sensitive artist, and, like, I'm not, like, I'm not a bullshitter either. So I just kind of, like, the stuff I put out is true and real. And because of that, it can be quite hurtful if people don't get it or are abusive towards it. And there was, like, a moment of that happening because of the sheer, like, volume of people that were desperate to get a bedroom and desperate to get a tezzard and just, you know, you. And at the end of the day, you have to remember that, like, once I put the art out there, it's completely out of my control as well. So, like, you know, if you buy something on secondary for an amount of money, money like that, the person you bought it off of, like, speak to them about it if it's, if you're not happy, like, I can't control anything after that, so. Yeah, and I think I just had to take a step back and, like, remember, like, what, what's real? Because I think as well, like, I was in this point where my, so my mental health was also just, like, making everything seem on social media way worse because I'd, you know, because I was in this really dark place anyway. I was, it was amplifying everything. And, like, my wife was, like, looking at stuff and saying, like, I think you're, like, literally reading some of this stuff in the wrong way. Like, I'm not reading this the same way as you are. And that's when I realized that, like, I'd really, like, I was really ill and, yeah, it was, like, right time to go and get this sorted. And that became my priority, you know? Like, I just wanted to be better and, like, staying better is the only thing I really care about now. So that's why I've kind of, I'm, I'm much more chill with my minting and, like, try and be, like, calmer on social media and just take a step back. Take everything on social media with a massive pinch of salt now as well because I've realized that so much stuff is just, like, engagement farming anyway, and you just got to, like, not take the bait, you know, and just remember that everyone has their own kind of narrative that they're trying to make, and if it doesn't align with yours, you don't have to argue about it or, like, send each other death threats or just be an asshole. Like, you can just be, like, okay, that's fine. You can think that I'll think this, but, like, continue living your life, and that's fine. So, yeah, that's kind of what happens. No, thank you for opening up, being vulnerable on that. And I think you're right. You know, I think it messes with a lot of people, for sure. You know, it's. I mean, I know that you've been on Instagram posting consistently. I've seen some of your work on there as I was doing the research for this. So you've been at it for a while, and you blew up like crazy. And, yeah, it can mess with you. And it's funny that you say, like, you know, like, you could have a thousand positives, but if one negative, like, that's the one that sticks with you, I don't think that's, you know, I wouldn't feel too. Too guilty about that. You know, there's professional athletes, there's politicians, there's people that, you know, they're at the top of their game, and they're the same way. You know, you know, they'll have a thousand likes, and. And the one negative is the one they stick with. And, yeah, the brain's just, like you said, the monkey brain. It's just wired, like, that way for some reason, but, yeah, and it's interesting to me that it's so funny because the. Not being able to please any, like, everyone, you know, like, it's. It's so funny as a. As a collector as well, in the space that, like, you could do all the right things and people could still be unhappy, you know? So, um, the. The artists and community that I'm kind of the most familiar with is, uh, lucres. And, you know, I see he's very methodical and thoughtful, and I'm not saying you're not either, but, um, you know, he could put so much thought into something, and people are just not happy, you know, he'll. He'll make one decision where, like, half the people are like, yep, this is a solid decision. And the other half are like, this is an awful decision. You know, so. And people who get it, people take it very personal. You know, I think we're all, like, in our own little hero personality kind of world where we think it's. They're coming after the decision is directly pointed at you, and it's like, dude, the world does not revolve around you. Yeah. You know, and that. And that. Yeah. And that fully goes for everyone. Like, I think, like, you. You kind of feel like when you're in a really bad space as well. It's really easy to feel like everybody's looking at you under a microscope, but then you actually kind of take a step back and remember that, like, actually, no one really gives two shits about you specifically. Like, they, they come and go into your life, especially on social media. Like, you know, people that I haven't spoken to you for two years will pop up and be like, oh, I didn't realize you were back minting on tezos. And it's like, yeah, and that's like, somebody that I thought was, like, fully just like, following my every move online, you know? And it's like you kind of, it's easy to lose yourself in these kind of worries. It's also just difficult because at the end of the day, like, we've kind of, like, we're building this thing that's like the future of art in my personal feelings. But unfortunately, and fortunately, in some ways as well, like, it's a blessing and a curse, but at the end of the day, it's hyper financialized. And because of that, like, it's always going to bring out people's worst side. And that, like, you know, people say and do stuff to other people that, like, just isn't, that's really cruel because of money, you know, and, like, even, you know, you'll see it. Even, like, people's own families will fall out and become cruel to each other because of money. So, like, of course Internet strangers are going to fall out if, like, even if you love an artist, like, if they make one bad move or one bad decision, in your opinion, if there's a financial aspect to it, then they end up being way over the top. And I just feel like in some ways that that wouldn't happen if things were a little bit less financialized. But then at the same time, the financialization of everything is kind of like what's brought so many people in. And so many people are now enjoying art in a way that they maybe didn't really realized was even possible for them because of originally being like, okay, I want to get into this because I'm going to get rich, but there are some people that are genuinely now still involved that actually realize that they absolutely love art and didn't really realize that before. They love talking about it. They love looking at it. They love finding new stuff, finding new artists and talking to new artists and new people. And at first they thought they were just going to, like, you know, buy a bored ape and make a million and was the end of it. So there's blessings and curses in every walk of life, but it's just a shame that a lot of the fallouts and struggles and pressure on artists is because of the financialization of it all. And I don't think there's ever going to be, like, there's never going to be a way around that, really. Like, I mean, maybe as the market matures and everything becomes, you know, I do see this potential future, especially now. There's like, bitcoin, ETF's and all that. I feel like it's quite possible that over the next ten, maybe longer years, that everything will just kind of calm down to a much more normal market. And then it won't be like you're buying a piece of art with the intention of trying to flip it for ten x or 100 x, like a week down the line. You're buying it for the price it is because you like it and that's kind of where it will stay. Kind of like buying a print now, you know, like, people buy my prints all the time. They don't buy it and then go like, oh, I bought this. OMG, I draw it print for 25 quid, and, like, the next day I sold it for 100 quid or dollars. It's just like, it's just not in people's minds at all. Like, even slightly. And I kind of think it would be nice if the whole space got to a point where it was, like, in between, because I get the concept of flipping and I get the concept of collecting with the intent of selling later. In every instance, I get that. And, like, my personal collection strategy is that I just buy the stuff I really like. And I've never sold anything that I've bought in the entire two years that I've, you know, three. Three plus years. Is it now? Like, I can't even remember what. What the date is now? Yeah, I've been. You're approaching three now. I've been collecting, you know, I've been collecting art on. I've collected art on a lot, mostly on tezos, obviously, and I've collected a few pieces on ETH and I've collected on base and Zora and Solana now as well. And I've never even contemplated relisting the piece for sale because I just buy stuff that I want to own myself and, like, I'm never going to not like something that I bought. That's one of the other things that I think is really difficult. Right. This is a thing that happened to me when I was younger about music and I think music is a really good one. So I like every song that I liked when I first heard it, if I liked it still now. Does that make sense? So I've never, like. I've never heard a song, liked the song that I listened to, and then, like, gone back and realized that actually, I don't like it. I just like the things I like, and I've always liked the things I like. And I had a friend in school, so one of my favorite bands when I was a kid is Jimmy World. You know? Jimmy world, they're like a pop punk band. I love Jimmy. And my friend that showed me Jimmy when I was high school, I saw him. I actually hadn't seen him for a while, but I invited him to my wedding, and at my wedding, we were talking about music, because he's really into music. And I was like, do you remember when you showed me Jimmy? He was like, oh, yeah, Jimmy Wellman. They suck. Like, I hate them now. And I was like, how can you hate something you liked? I don't get it. I get not enjoying it maybe as much, but I don't get ever going back to something that you liked once and not liking it anymore. Like, that doesn't compute for me. If it does for other people, that's totally fine, but just for me, it doesn't compute. So if I bought something that I wanted at the time, I'll look at it a few years later, and maybe it's not blowing my mind like it did the first time that I saw it, but I'll still like it. I'll never unlike it. I don't unlike stuff. And I feel like that. I, like, worry that again because of the financialization of crypto, that because people chase narratives and we see this huge push. So I think at the start of Tezos is a really good example because everybody was collecting stuff, and I think at the time, so many people were. They didn't really have, like, they hadn't been, like, told what to look for. People were just collecting the stuff they really liked. And the stuff they really liked then isn't the same as the stuff that people really like now, which I think is really interesting. And I'm like, are you still collecting stuff you really like, or are you still collecting the stuff that follows the financialization narrative? I feel like so many people that collected my work now, like, back then, now wouldn't even kind of contemplate it because it's not generative art, for example. And I'm like, it's just really interesting. As an artist, to step back and kind of look at that, you know, I think if you bought something because you liked it, honor that, you know, like, it's cool. You can like cartoony illustrations and you can like crazy concept art and you can, like, generate of art and you can like, pfps. It's all fine. Just like, the stuff you like, buy the stuff you like, you'll be happy then, you know, I like all those things. I buy all those things and I'm happy with all the things I've collected. Yeah, yeah, that's actually for me, when I got into the space, it was like, it was a little bit of both. You know, I think on ETH, I was trying to buy things that I could flip. And then on Tesla's, it was more literally, I could just buy things that I liked because the price was good, the gas was good, cool. I didn't have that financial pressure for, for it to be like, you know, that's not to say that there aren't, you know, really expensive tezos pieces, but, you know, it was just a completely different mindset for me, I think. Sorry, it's like, it's a nicer mindset in a way, right. Because I think it's, it's so much purer to collect from that way. Like, if you're having to worry so much about, like a million different factors for you to decide that you like something, and so many of those factors relate to money, then, like, how much do you really like the thing, you know? Yeah, no, agreed. And I've ended up having a lot more fun and success buying things that I like early, so I'll find an artist I like early. And, you know, there's no signal of, like, you know, some famous person bought it for a million dollars. It's like, I bought it for$200 or whatever, $100. And I don't think about it at all. I just talk to them and then, you know, it just happens to be like a year or two later, other people end up discovering them and liking them as well. And then the, the financial reward at that stage, it makes sense, you know, I'll have a piece for 100, I'll sell it for like a thousand. It just also happens to be, I've accumulated enough of this artist that I'm like, I don't need, you know, necessarily 20 pieces. Yeah, sure, yeah, I don't need every single piece, you know? Yeah. So, and, and that's worked out a lot better for me than actually chasing, you know, the next monkey. PFP or, or anything of that nature. You know, also, like, at the end of the day, like, from my perspective, I intend to continue making art for as long as my hands will still work. And if you want to sell a piece of mind that you've collected so that you can buy another piece that maybe you like better because you still really like my work, but you want to get more pieces. I fully get all of the kind of concepts behind it. I think it's an incredible space because of all of the things that come with it. But, you know, I don't want people to feel like they have to keep a piece if they want to get a new piece and the old piece is going to allow them to get something new, you know? Of course, like, I feel differently as well. Maybe if I was like, that's it, guys. I'm never making another piece of art. So what I've put out, like, if you want my work, like, that's all you're going to ever get. Because, like, I'm an artist and I make art and I make it every day. So it may be as well that, like, as. As times change and concepts change within my work and the themes change and I change as a person. Like, my most amazing piece that I ever make might be, you know, the producer, but it also might be in, like, five years time. So it's creativity. Like, there's no way of knowing, like, when you're going to have that spark of genius. I feel like, you know, sometimes I think, like, did I already have my, like, my. My number one selling hit with the bedroom series? You know, am I ever gonna. Am I ever gonna make an artwork that connects with people more than. Than those? But, like, that, you know, that's something that I sometimes do worry about. But at the same time, like, I'm not gonna stop making art either way, so what difference does it make? Like, I'll just keep making, making, and hopefully people keep enjoying, and if they also keep buying, then that's amazing. But it's, it's just, for me, it's like, I just want to create. So I'll be creating regardless of the market cycles and regardless of. Of the financialization. I really feel like for some reason, I can't say financialization today. I keep, like, I keep, like, twisting my tongue and, like, it's making me really listy. No, don't worry. You're towards the end of your day, so. And it's Friday, so. Yeah, it's been a long week, actually. Exactly. Let's see. I can now see why? You're happy that most of my questions are. Only. One of my questions was regarding the Tezzards. Yeah. People are nuts, man. Let's see. So I know you recently had a piece shown out in Paris, and you were. I think you were in Paris. Yeah. You were in Paris. You got sick. Yeah. Just talked to me about kind of, like, how did that come about? And, you know, is it still very, like, does it still feel really cool to have your work, you know, still shown, like, you know, at an event or something like that? Like, is that still, you know, enchanting to you? Yeah, it probably would be if I didn't have a piece in Paris, actually. Oh, you didn't? Oh, yeah, I think you were mentioning that. My bad. So I think that, like, maybe through. Because obviously, like, warpcaster was blowing up a bit over that bit of time as well. I think maybe I might have had a piece on display at the, like, warcaster meetup, but I. The girl that runs the art channel messaged me and said, you should put a piece forwards for this. So I don't know if that means that she picked the piece that I put forwards, and it did get shown, but I don't think they told anybody. So I may well have had a piece up at the. I don't know if it was at Eicheim or Bright moments Cafe, where they were, like, hosting the event, but I may have had a piece up there a couple of days before I got there. But, yeah, I didn't, unfortunately, didn't have anything actually on display myself. I just. Because of being in the UK and Paris being reasonably close, I decided that it would be pretty cool to go to. And then it was one of those classic things where suddenly loads of people that I'd wanted to meet for a long time said they were going, so I was like, I'm just gonna bite the bullet and go. But, yeah, it was. Was a really cool. It was a really cool event. I mean, Paris is. I don't know if you've ever been to Paris, but it's a really amazing city. And it was. Yeah, I mean, it poured with rain the whole time, and everybody got COVID. But, like, the art was really cool. There was some really cool talks. Bright moments was awesome. There was, like, a lot of really cool art there as well. And, yeah, I mean, there's some always. It's always worth going to events in real life. I think, like, you get to meet people and make better connections and, like, I kind of spoke to. I kind of already was speaking to John Karp, who's the guy that has the NFT factory, Paris. But I got to go and see that in real life, which is really cool and like, and have a real life meeting with him. And that's leading on to me having some stuff in Lisbon and like, yeah. So hopefully I'm really hoping that the Lisbon stuff goes through because they want to have my work on some really big screens and that's amazing. So when they told me that, I was like, that got me buzzing because I was like, fine. If you make something that's really, really detailed and it's only ever really seen on a laptop screen or at best a phone, it's, it's pretty cool when someone says they're up for like, putting it on a wall that's like ten or 20ft squared, you know, so I'm pretty excited about that. Yeah, that's still, but it's still a little bit up in the air, so I don't want to get, I just find that like, I'm, I'm still, like, from, I've had so many letdowns in my career from like, previous NFTs that I still find, like, until my work is actually on the wall, like, and I see it on the wall, I'll just assume it's not actually happening. And that's kind of how I, how I kind of live my life now. Just like not getting too excited about anything because you just never know what's going to, like, what might happen. So I've had so many times where I'd, like, got a really good opportunity with a job free NFTs had like, did like six weeks of emails and then they were like, oh, actually, we, we aren't going to do the project anymore. And I'm just like, you know, so it's made me, like, super, it's made me super cynical when it comes to, like, being excited about stuff before it actually happens. So, like, yes, I'm absolutely buzzing if my stuff is up. I mean, I've got a piece up at NFT NYC which is why I'm going there as well. But it's, I don't, I don't know how that's being displayed exactly, but, like, it's a good opportunity to go there. And I really love New York. I haven't been for a long time. Went when I was 21, so I'm really excited to go back to New York. And I'm sure there's loads of really cool art events on, in the fringe. I think that's the thing as well. Like, the main events at these things tend to be so, so. But then, like, there'll be loads of stuff around other, like, companies and NFT, like, marketplaces and artists and stuff are putting on that usually tend to be really cool and generally free entry as well. So I'm excited for that stuff. And that's what was good about Paris as well. We didn't have tickets for the main event, but we just turned up and there was so much stuff that you could go to so many galleries, and then at the same time, nice wine, croissants. It's all good. Yeah, but I gotta make it up to Paris one day. I'm going to New York, but same like you, you know, everyone's like, don't buy the ticket to the actual event. Just go be there. And then, you know, you'll find satellite events and go to that and just go to those, you know. Yeah, totally. Yeah, live and learn that lesson, I think, for sure. After, you know, the main NFT Paris, like, obviously it's an expo. It's not. So if you're an artist, you're like, I kind of expected it to be way more about art, but actually it's about crypto and NFTs as a whole, so there's loads of stuff there that's kind of, like, not really interesting to me at all. So I was a bit like, oh, this is not what I expected. But when you think about it, like, it's about the entire crypto market rather than specifically about art. And because of that, you don't see just art when you go to the expo, you know, makes sense, really. But I was a bit like, oh, man, if I paid like$500 or whatever it was for a ticket for this, I'd be pretty pissed off. But then, like, all of the stuff around was amazing and free entry, so, like, I guess maybe if you had bought a ticket, you would be like, well, this wasn't great, but at least all this stuff is. So we fortunately got a couple of free tickets right at the last minute. Otherwise I wouldn't have probably gone to the. To the main NFT Paris show. But, yeah, and there was some amazing art in there still. But it's just like I, for some reason in my head, thought it was going to be like a full on. I guess it's because I. I was at Art Basil. Basil Basel. I never know whether it's Basil or Basil. I think people say basel, but Basel, yeah, baseline. I think it's because, like, because of being from the UK, I say basil is like the herb basil. So, yeah. Anyway, so artbazel was obviously really art centric, so I just assumed that everything was going to be like that. But then I remembered that actually it's more like, so when I was a hairdresser, we used to go to hairdressing expos, and that's the same kind of concept. Like just a huge, huge, like, warehouse full of everything to do with hairdressing, which a lot of the stuff is of no interest. So it is the same kind of concept, really. Sorry, I feel like I've kind of waffled a bit about that for kind of no reason there, to be honest. But yeah, no, no, basically, check out, when you check out all the fringe events at these things, they are, they're what's worth going to, I'd say. Yeah, no, I think that's what I'm going to end up going to. I mean, I personally, like, I've been in the space now for, for a long time, like crypto as a whole, so. Yeah, sure. And I really enjoy the technology. So for me, it's like, you know, it could be art, just pure art or just pure tech. And either or I'm kind of, I'm happy because I like geeking out on both things. So it's good for me either way, regardless of what the vet ins. All right, so I have two more quick ones, hopefully. Then I have to hop off. So I know, I think I saw in warpcast you were talking about doing. You're kind of working on some new merch or some physical stuff. So, like, the current meta right now is kind of like, at least what I've seen is a lot of artists are doing, you know, either books, so like, NFT art books, or they're doing, you know, high quality prints, or they're doing like, you know, just crazy physical plus nft things. So I kind of wanted to get your, your, you know, what, what exactly are you working on, on that physical side right now? And if you've thought about maybe doing something, you know, super crazy, like in terms of physical plus nft, you know, like if you buy this nft, then you get the physical or anything of that nature. Yeah. So basically I had a physical webshop for a long time, and it became quite challenging to keep it going when I had so much other stuff on as well. And because of the fact that everything was going really well in crypto, I didn't really need, need to, to push the shop anymore, so we kind of closed it down. I still have loads of prints. And then obviously, like I said, we started doing markets again and then I was like, we need to kind of have, like a shop. I think it's good to have a shop because I think if there's one thing that the kind of long bear market has taught me is that you do need to have kind of other income streams. So the idea is to relaunch the physical shop and kind of have like an underlying kind of hopefully constant stream of income from that. Because my stuff does sell really well in the shops that it's like, I stock in a few shops in the UK and it's always sold really well. But the hard thing is, like getting eyes on a web store. So we're just kind of trying to work on that at the moment. But, like, I just wanted to do a few things I hadn't done before because I've just mostly done print. So we were just kind of looking at a few options and like, yeah, I've just designed, like, a little temporary tattoo sheet, which is pretty cool. We found this, like, it's also difficult as well because I trying to, like, as much as possible, keep any of the physical merch or physical print on the kind of environmentally conscious side. So it's like good inks and recycled paper or card and recite, like, Stanley stellar t shirts, which are like an organic and better cotton. And it's quite difficult trying to find all that stuff and find things that are quirky on that stuff as well. So I was really pleased to find these tattoo sheets because they're like, they're like soybean ink and on recycled paper and stuff. And I was like, wow, I can't believe it. So I made this little temporary tattoo sheet, which is really cool. And we're making some zines and notebooks and stuff. And with regards to your question, I've not really tried to tie it together especially, but I do want to. In fact, my current series that I'm working on to and releasing going at the moment, the recipes for disaster. Like, obviously the individual pieces do kind of look like comic book pages, I guess, in a way. And that was a decision that was on purpose because I wanted to make a kind of comic book zine out of the work at the end. And I have kind of got this plan to, for people that collect, like, from one through to five will get a trophy and that trophy will allow them to request the physical copy when I release it. But the thing is, I like doing that sort of stuff, but I don't like, I don't ex like, I don't like to say that I'm doing it in a way because I don't want the, like, I kind of don't want the underlying value to be that you get something for free. I want the people to like it enough to want to collect the artwork. And then a bonus is that they get the zine when I get it made. So I've not really, like, massively amped that or, like, spoken about it a huge amount. I've told a few of my long term collectors that that's what I'm doing. So, yeah, there'll be a physical. The plan is to make a physical comic book kind of zine with the ten pieces once they're all out. And I hope that I'll be able to have enough or afford some extra pages to put in some, like, sketches and stuff as well. And that is actually as much as anything, it's for me, I think I did. I posted about that series today, like, what the series is about quite a long. Quite a long and kind of heartfelt post about it that I think kind of explains the series a bit more for people. Part of the reason why I wanted to make the physical is because I also wanted to be able to have it to give to my two nephews when they're a bit older. And also for me to kind of have a bit of closure from the kind of circumstances that made me create that series. So it was always for me, going to be, like, a physical item that I wanted to make at the end. And obviously, the benefit of selling the pieces as NFTs is that I can then offer that to collectors as well, if they're interested. So that's kind of one that I'm literally doing at the moment. But I don't know if it's going to be like, I'm not going to connect it via trace or any kind of stuff like that because I just don't have the capacity to do those kind of things at the moment. But I'd love to at some point, create a. I mean, my absolute dream is to make, like a. A hard back coffee book, coffee table book of bedroom nostalgia that has the entire series, including. Because I still plan on finishing bedroom nostalgia. I've got an ending for it, right. But it's just become like, a difficult thing to finish because, like, I don't know, when hen went down, things changed a lot as well. And I kind of, like, I still want to mint the rest of them through that smart contract on which is now Tia and it's just like, I don't know, it's all a bit confusing and I've got so much other stuff on at the moment, I'm kind of letting it sit behind, but the intention is, in the fullness of time, to complete bedroom nostalgia and then get a bunch of my favorite tribute pieces because obviously so many people made such amazing versions of bedroom nostalgia as well and put them in there. I've got quite a lot of bedroom nostalgia that only made it to a rough stage. I also had some other conceptual ideas for bedroom nostalgia that I wanted to pursue that I still might mint maybe, but probably would just put in the book. So I've got this idea for this amazing bedroom nostalgia art book that's like a coffee table book that I will eventually, hopefully, assuming that, like, the world continues going forwards, make, and then hopefully that will be something that I can do in that way. But again, it's difficult because obviously the original stuff is all minted on tier. I don't think there's necessarily a way of building it into the contract that I can put out like a linked book. But I mean, that doesn't matter so much. I think it's its own thing. Enough for people to know if they wanted bedrooms to a book, they could get it. And I would also want it to be an art book that people that aren't into nfts could get because they. It's a nice enough book and then maybe that would also bring them in and they would look at NFTs and Tezos in a different light as well. So, yeah, that's something I'd really love to do and I really, really hope that I can achieve. It's just like, you know, you look into this stuff and to try and find it and do it in a nice way stuff, it's just so expensive. And then I could do it in like a kind of crowdfunder concept, I guess, like where I gather the funds first. But the way that the reach is now through the Internet is so well, through x, excuse me. Is so bad that it's like really easy to think that something's a flop when actually it's just that, like, nobody gets to see your posts anymore. So I would worry that I couldn't fund it and then it would look like it was a flop. And it's just, you know, it's the usual kind of artist worries going through my head with stuff like that. But the truth is, is that I could probably afford to get like 100 or maybe at a push 500. Really nice books made anyway. And then if any collectors wanted to get one, they could get one, and then I could sell them as well to, to just to normies. And that would be cool, you know, like that. That would be such a nice thing for me to have to have been able to make from the entire process, so. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I hope you do it. Honestly, man, I think that'd be dope. I think coffee books, like, high quality coffee books are underrated. And I think yours is, like, your art is, like, prime for it, I would say. Yeah, it has a theme. So, yeah, there's a couple ways you could crowdfund it. You know, you can use fabric. They have, like, uh, crowd financing, so it's, like, all on chain based. Uh, but, yeah, I know what you mean with, like, x. It's like, dude, I don't even know sometimes, like, I'll post something. Like, I watched Aquaman, three stars out of five. Like, something hella dumb. Yeah. And that will get more views and engagement than, like, you know, me actually. Like, I'll do, like, an interview with an artist or something and that will get, like, nothing. You know, I'm like, why did my post on nothing do so much better than the post on, you know, there's. Really, like, no rhyme or reason to it anymore. I mean, that's why I'm kind of, like, really bullish and sort of really interested in Walkcaster because I just feel like it. I feel like it's, at the moment, at least, a way better place to be having conversation because there's people actually there responding. And I don't know if that's because everyone kind of hype because it's new, or whether it's just because the algorithms on X really have gone so downhill that, like, you just can't post anymore. And I think especially if you're posting anything that's, like, got the slightest undercurrent of crypto involved, it's just getting, like, totally minimized. So, yeah, it's really, it's a really difficult thing when you're, like, trying to put out stuff and feeling like a failure because it's not been seen. I think, like, maybe people need to look at it from a more of a perspective as, like, if you put out something and it got, like, a million views, but nobody had liked it or reshared it, then that would be a slightly different story. But I think because you can see how bad the reach is as well, it's like, okay, so not only is my post, like, not being liked, but actually only like, 100 out of 10,000 people are even seeing it, and it's like, you have to kind of bear that in mind, I think. But, like, when it comes to trying to do something where you know it's going to be quite a burden, you want to make sure that it has, like, enough opportunity to get reached. So, yeah, where that is now is hard, you know? And I guess, like I said, warpcaster seems like a bit more promising, but trying to juggle millions of social media is also really difficult and unhealthy as well. So, yeah, who knows what the future is with that, really? Yeah, no, I'm like you, man. I'm super bullish on Farcaster and Warpcast as a whole, so, yeah, I'm actually going to end up doing, like, an episode just specifically on that because I do think it's, it's not hype. Like, the hype's kind of gone down a little bit now, and I feel like it's still in a good place. So, yeah, I'm positive on it. Um, all right, to wrap up. Um, so I don't know if you know, but, like, basically, uh, on my podcast, everyone I've spoken to, I always ask them this question, and it's mostly because of, like, when I originally got started with this, uh, the name of this whole, like, segment and work that I was doing was based on a basque word for snack because that was supposed to be, like, snack size information. Uh, and then it kind of just evolved into its own thing. And now it's not snacks. Nice. Now it's like, you know, whole full on meal. Um. Uh, so I wanted to know what. What is your favorite snack? Um, so I will say nachos, which I think is nachos. Okay. I don't know if you saw my post the other day about nachos. Like, um, I made a wok, cast a confession, and I said, like, in a real, like, because it's not, like, it's not my favorite meal. Like, that's dumb. Like, nachos isn't my favorite meal. But, like, in a way, when I think about it, I'm like, nachos kind of is my favorite meal. And then I'm like, and of all the nachos that I've ever had, the really gross ones that you get in the cinema, which are, like, covered in, like, that, like, bag cheese. Bag cheese. And, like, and, like, Doritos own brand salsa are, like, weirdly my favourite nachos, which means that, like, my favourite meal is kind of cinema nachos, which I think is, like, disgusting, but at the same time, it's kind of like, embrace the disgustingness of it and realize that actually cinema and nachos are, well, nice, so, yeah, like, that's my, that's probably my favorite, I wouldn't say it's my favorite meal, but it's like, it's definitely my favorite snack. And, like, I'll make nachos at home and make them with, like, really nice ingredients, like, organic tortillas, and, like, make my own, like, bean salsa or, like, kind of chilli con carne or whatever, and make it all really nice from scratch with, like, all the best ingredients. And it's obviously so nice, but then, like, something about those disgusting cinematographers, you know, that you just can't, you can't beat. It's kind of, I guess it's like when people like, because I don't eat meat, so. And it's way easier now to get, like, fast food burgers that are, like, you know, with, like, beyond meat and all that stuff. But, like, it's like when someone's favorite burger is a big Mac, and, like, in a way, like, I. It is the nicest burger, you know, when I used to eat meat, like, a big Mac is kind of the weird. Like, weirdly is the nicest burger, but it also is gross, and, like, isn't the nicest burger at all, you know? Yeah, and I think that's kind of, that's kind of the cinema nachos scenario for me, so, yeah, I'll say cinema nachos, if that's too much, then maybe, like, I really like sweets, so I don't like desserts. I hate desserts, actually. But, like, actual candy, I love candy. So probably like a bag of skittles. I love skittles. Yeah, skittles are amazing. It cracks me up about the nachos. I had a friend who, in university who loved the Big Mac, and one day I took him to, like, this really, like, bougie burger place near university, and it had, like, grass fed meat, like, you could find out, like, the birth certificate of, like, the cow. Like, you knew who his mom and dad was. It was, like, really fancy. Like, I don't know, like, you could. They knew what they were doing. It was really tasty. I really loved it. Like, fresh ingredients, fresh everything. It's like the best of the best of everything. So it's like an over, overly, over the top, like, burger. And he ate it, and he was like, that's good, but it wasn't a big Mac. Yeah. And like, I totally, like, I get it so much. I get it, though. Yeah, I guess it's in a. You said it tasted too real. Yeah, you can really taste the cow in there. I guess it's like, you know, I guess, like, it's like the old, like, pizza. It's like there's no bad pizza, right? It's the same kind of concept. Like, there's a million different pizza joints and there's so many different pizzas. But, like, the cheapest, like, one pound or $1 frozen pizza is still really nice in its own way because it's pizza and it's kind of, I guess it's the same of all of those kind of, like, sort of junk foods, I guess, like, where you can go really high end and it's really nice. But also the really low end is still also really nice because it's just like, such a good food anyway that it just allows it to work either end of the scale. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cinema nut shows. I do listen to Monacha, so I know exactly what you mean. 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