Ivan Casis Jr.

Episode6: Gramajo (@0xGramajo) is joined by Ivan Casis Jr (@icasis). A multidiciplinary artist from Latin America who has recently been making waves in the Web3 space.

From the vibrant landscapes of Panama to the bustling art scene in Argentina, Ivan has traversed an intriguing journey from acclaimed architect to an innovative NFT artist. This episode unfolds a riveting conversation with Ivan as we traverse his fascinating life journey, his passion for technology, and the transformation he's seen in the art world through the dawn of the digital age. We reflect on his days in the analog world of architecture and how he adapted to the digital frontier, while exploring his art inspirations and the birth of his unique isometric drawings.

We transition into the world of Web3 Art as Ivan reveals his strategic niche carving, and his efforts to create a recognizable visual language. An interesting element of this conversation centers around the relevance of memes in modern culture and the choices that artists must make when choosing the right platforms to achieve the right exposure. Ivan elaborates on his experience with platforms such as Super Rare, Nifty Gateway, and the Foundation, and how they've impacted his work, along with expressing admiration for fellow artists who inspire him.

As we round up our conversation, we discuss his collaborations with other artists, his affection for Macbeth and Tony Bapel, and what it takes to acquire one of his pieces. Not one to shy away from technology, Ivan talks about minting works on Ethereum and Tesos, his innovative idea for an interactive NFT, and his Momo Blocks project. As we wrap up, Ivan reflects on his life's journey so far, his multi-faceted talents, and his thoughts on age and its relevance in the web 3 space. With a riveting dialogue like this, you won't want to miss out on this episode!

Date Recorded: July 7, 2023

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00:00 Dad's work at home inspired my career.
10:38 Priest encouraged art career, parents hesitant, cultural differences.
13:22 Passionate about architecture, involved in designing buildings.
17:16 Isometric view maintains accurate size proportions in drawings.
25:16 Shifted to drawing, played with animations, flexibility.
27:49 Seeking platforms, discovered ability, offered untested work.
34:39 Architecture always present, influenced by childhood toys.
38:31 My dad, architect turned artist, inspires me.
46:28 Friends struggle with creative block, I don't.
51:38 Learning from art experts, art reflects current society.
59:13 First animated work led to architecture exhibition.
01:04:27 In 2021, good exposure for artists is crucial.
01:09:15 Female Spanish artist in the UK, versatile.
01:12:11 Artist discusses art works on blockchain platforms.
01:17:12 Creating a modular animation library for collection.
01:23:34 Denied hopes of meeting New York Knicks.
01:27:38 Grateful for your time and story, man.

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Links:

https://twitter.com/icasis

Transcript

0:00

And she saw me, my work and she told me that she had never seen anything that looked like that. And she talked that I had a chance with NFT. So it was March, I think, 2021. She gave me an invitation to foundation. GM GM. Welcome to another episode of the podcast. This week I sat down with Yvonne, a multidisciplinary artist from Panama who lives in Argentina. Hope you guys enjoy it. Thanks for tuning in. Yeah. So if you want to introduce yourself, who is Ivan or Yvonne? Ivan. Well, my name is Yvonne Ivan Cassis Jr. Just like my dad. I'm from Panama. I've been living in Argentina for six years now. I moved here in 2017 with my wife and my daughter. And I'm an architect. I spent most of my life working as an architect, but now I'm basically a full time NFT artist and I have a couple of commission works here and there. So that's what I do most of my time. How long have you been an architect for? A long time. I. I'm not just. I don't have like, just the same name like my dad. I do the same thing. My dad is an architect, too. Oh, man. Yeah. I'm 44 years old. I finished high school in 1996. So back in the day in Panama, there were weren't like too many careers to choose from where you could use your creativity. So I decided to go with architecture. It's not like it was my only choice. I had a couple of choices, but between art and architecture, it was like a logical choice for me, having my dad. I was surrounded by architecture my whole childhood. My dad used to work at home from a couple of years, for a couple of years. So I was familiar with the tools he used to have and with the language with stuff. Architecture was around all the time, so it was like a logical decision for me. So I started working with my dad at his studio in around year 2000 until I moved here in 2017. But when I moved to Argentina, I keep on working remotely because the thing that I used to do the most is take care of the design part design. I was like architectural designer. I wasn't going too much to the site, the construction site. I spent most of my time designing and 3d modeling and all that stuff. That's awesome, man. So you got to see, because it shifted, right? Like, the tools probably that your dad used has changed now, right? So now do you guys use cads and stuff like that or just like more software, more computers? Exactly. That's exactly the time where I started working with him, is why it's around the time that everything shifted to digital. When I started college, we weren't even allowed to work with computers. It was like just in the middle of the whole change, some of the old school teachers didn't want us to work with computers. I started college, and the first day that I started, I took an AutoCaD course. So it was back in the day, even when AutoCAD was called AutoCAD Air R 1414, it wasn't like, now that it's AutoCAD 2024, I don't know. That is with the year. Actually, when I started working with my dad, there wasn't any computer around. He was and still is at 75 years old. He doesn't work with computers. He draws everything by hand. So when I started working with him, with him in year 2000, I brought the first computer to the studio. And now most of the work is made by computer. Yeah. It's crazy how some of these industries shift so dramatically based on technology and stuff like that, because I visualize what you're saying, like your dad being old school, all paper, like archival level paper and all that, and then the storage of that paper and those files if you ever need to retrieve it in the future. And then now it's just like solid digital. You can see it in manipulate it. I've seen some crazy stuff where this might be the same for you, but where you could run simulations on how a structure will behave under wind conditions or under certain weights or whatever. So it's super different now, I imagine. Yeah, it's something like, it depends. When you have a big studio, all those things are made in house. But in our case, we used to work with all of that, but it was like outsourcing. We used to outsource all of that. As I told you, when I started, it was like there were no computers at all at the office, so I kind of shifted everything to digital. And today it's like that, but things change radically, completely. It's a whole different thing. I spent most of my time behind a computer, 3d modeling or drawing everything on cat software. And it's completely different from when I started with those big drafting tables and the rulers and all the pencils and everything. It shifted drastically. Yeah. That's crazy. Were you an artist in the sense of what people think of when they think of art? Because to me, even those architecture design things, I don't know the proper term for them, but to me even those are even very beautiful. It's not art like in the sense of what people think of art, but to me, it's very pleasing to the eye when it's very nice. So were you doing any other art outside of kind of like your work before web three? Yeah. Like I said at the beginning, when I was a little kid, there was a time that I thought that I was going to be an artist. But when the time to choose your major came, I ended up studying architecture. But something weird happened to me because when I was a little kid, I was like a pretty good artist for my age. I won my first art competition when I was, I think, like seven years old. And I won a couple more like when I was 810. And that's how I went most of my childhood. When I was in school, I used to draw everything for class, like the graduation t shirt, the graduation posters, everything. I used to do everything. And all of my classmates used to say that, oh, man, you're the artist of the group. You are going to be the artist. Everyone, as a joke, everyone, we used to say, we're going to be buying your art when we get older, and we're going to all have pictures painted by you on our houses. But I don't know, something shifted for me when I decided to study architecture. I think that I kind of blocked everything. When I was in my senior year in high school, I remember that I was an art. I was studying at a catholic university, a catholic school. And one of the priests, which was a professor, gave me a brochure from a art university in the states, and he told me, hey, man, I think you are the best artist in the class, and you should think about pursuing a career in art. We've seen what you can do, so talk to your parents. So I went home and I took the info, and at the time, my parents didn't like too much the idea. I think in part because it was kind of expensive at the time, and those were like rough years in Panama. And also because I think it's like a cultural thing. You know how it is in the states that when you turn 18 years old, you're making your packaging everything and thinking about living home. But in Latin America, it's kind of different. Most of my friends stay at home until they get married or something. Yeah. That'S what happened. I think I'm going. I'm getting away of the subject, but you're good, man. When I decided to study architecture, I kind of blocked everything related to art. I was obsessed with architecture. I decided, okay, I'm going to be an artist, I'm going to be an architect, and I'm going to be the best architect I can possibly be. So I spent all of my free time, like buying architecture magazines and books, learning software, 3d software and 2d software. Everything that I could, working on my craft to be like the best architect possible. And I put art aside for a while. So that's something that I don't know if it was the best call, but that's what I did until I finished my architecture career. And then I decided to travel to Argentina for a master's degree and that's when everything changed for me. Got it. So you ended up going to Argentina just to get your master's degree in architecture as well? Yeah, it was in advanced architectural design because that's what I used to like because I always was a creative kid and good with my hands drawing and everything. So I wanted to even be even better as a designer. I was lucky enough to have the chance working with my dad to design buildings and stuff that were actually built when I was really young. I designed a 30 floor residential building when I was like 21. Actually, I haven't even finished the career. I did the design, but I didn't have to sign for the documents, I just made the design. But yeah, I decided to spend all of my time in architecture until I moved to Buenos Aires for that master's degree. And the funny thing is that I started seeing on museums and art galleries the type of stuff that I always wanted to do because I decided to focus all my energy in architecture. And also, something that happened to me in Panama is that when I went to art galleries, I never saw things that looked like things that I would have wanted to make because it was like two traditional, like landscapes and expressionism and stuff like that. Abstract maybe? Yeah, exactly. And the things that I wanted to do is like a mixture between drawing and painting. So when I started seeing those stuff, I was like, man, this is what I want to do. And at the same time, with all the tools that I got studying architecture, it was like, oh man, this is what I want to do, man. When I went to Argentina, I started drawing again. It was around year 2006. I was living in Buenos Aires between 2006 and 2009, and that's when I started drawing again. Yeah, that's awesome, man. This is super interesting to me. So how would you describe the art that you do now? What do you think is the name for it? Most of my work on web three is all three drawings that in isometric view. Isometric view. I don't know if you know what isometric view is. No, isometric view is like a type of perspective. Perspective view, where everything is drawn with 30 degrees angles in both sides. There's a 30 degree angle between the horizon and the base of the drawing. Okay, it's all 30 degree. So when you see something in perspective, you can see proportions and everything, but you can't measure things. For example, if you see a person that is close to the camera, you cannot measure, can measure something, but it's not the same proportion that something that's far from the camera. But in isometric view, things have the same proportion, actual proportion. So if there's a character that has 1.8 meters from height, it's actual its size in proportion with the building that's next to him. So I don't know if I was to play, but the thing is that all of my works are in isometric view. That's something that I learned during architecture, in architecture school. No, really, to be honest, I started doing it formally in architecture school. But that time of drawings, I used to make it at home with my dad tools when I was a kid. When my dad was away, I entered his studio and I started playing with his tools, and I was drawing with those things pretty early. So I'm going back to your question. Sorry. You're okay? I think that if I had to put a name of the thing that I do, I would say it's technical surrealism or something like that. Yeah, because there's a lot of technical stuff. It's like technical drawing, but none of it makes sense. So I don't know, maybe that could be a name for it. I like it. No, that's a good description, actually. Like you said, if you had to put a name to it, I like that one. And yeah, I appreciate the background on the isometric stuff. When I think about your work in my head, I know exactly what you're talking about with the view. So that makes sense. I didn't know that was the name of it. Yeah. So how did you get involved from the architecture space and moving to Argentina for your masters and all that? I know Argentina has a really big crypto community. How did you get involved with web three? Or how did you transition into web three? Yeah, it was some years after that. Because when I moved to, I ended my master's degree, I got married, and I moved with my wife back to Panama. But I wanted to start making art. So I came back to my dad's firm, architecture firm, and I started working there again. But I wanted to make art, so I started drawing a lot more. I even started an art blog where I publish some works of artists that I like it, and also I mix some interviews to some artists that I used to like, that I still like. And I had some cool conversations with a couple of well known artists that were kind enough to answer my questions. But then I started making art. So I started looking to look for a style of what I wanted to do. So the thing that I like, it was making these super detailed works and combining and making things that make sense. Some things that doesn't make sense, but you can see the architecture is always present in the things that I do. So I started doing that stuff, and then something really cool happened. Is that at my dad's studio, one of my bro. I didn't mention this, but I don't want to talk too much about it because it's going to take too much time. Both of my brothers are architects, too. Oh, that's awesome. That's like a whole family thing. My two younger brothers are architects, too. So we did well. We did well. When I came back from Argentina, we were all at full strength. Both of my brothers went away to study at the same time that I did. I'm the oldest. I came to Buenos Aires. Juan Jose, my brother in the middle, went to Madrid, and Gonzalo, the younger, went to New York. He had his master at Columbia University. Wow. So, yeah, that was awesome. I went to visit him and I stayed 45 days in New York, playing around the city. But the thing is that when one of my brothers was selling a laser cutter, a laser cutter, one of those big laser cutting machines, and we decided to buy it for the studio. So me and Juan Jose, my other brother, the middle brother, we started making laser cut art. Okay, that's cool. I started making wall installations and he started making sculptures, laser cut sculptures. He did super well. He won two times the national art award from sculpture. It was like something like really cutting edge, because no one in Panama had ever done anything like that. And it was acrylic sheets, laser cut and made a big sculpture. So what I did was started doing wall installations and the drawings that I make, I started working with vector illustrations so that the laser cut, what's the word? Sorry. Instead of cutting is engraving. Yeah. Okay. So the laser could engrave my drawings in wood or in acrylic sheets. So I started playing with that, and then I showed that to our gallery and they were really impressed because they had never seen anything like that in Panama. So I started selling my works on gallery. It was around 2012, I guess, 1112, I'm not sure. And I kept selling my works in a couple of galleries in Panama until I decided to move here to Argentina. So that was my first formal art shows and that kind of stuff. So on web three, it was something completely different, because when I moved here to Argentina, I already had the style of artworks that I wanted to make. But the thing is that the laser cutter wasn't here with me, stayed back there in Panama. So I shifted to drawing more and started playing around with animations. It's funny, because the most important reason I switched it was because I got my first iPad and I was in love with my iPad, drawing the iPad. But at the same time, when my kids were born, everything changed for me because it was a lot more difficult to spend time painting. You have to paint, you have to prepare everything. The paintings, the water, the canvas, everything. And the iPad gave me the flexibility to work in a dark room with a two year old boy in my hand. My kid was sleeping in one hand, and the other one I was drawing with the lights out. So I started doing that a lot more and I started playing around with animation until the pandemic hit. Like I said, when I came to here, I was still making some works, architecture designs for my dad and the office in Panama. But when the pandemic hit, you know how it was, man, everything stopped. Everything stopped and architecture stopped. And all of a sudden, nobody know what it was going to happen. And I didn't have a way to. To earn money to make a living because architecture stopped and I didn't have anything to do. And that's when I started looking for ways to sell my art online. And I think I always say that I had a bad break in. What? Because that would have been a very good moment to dive into crypto, but I didn't. If I knew about nfts in 2019 or 2020, it would have been awesome. Yeah. But, yeah, that was the time when everything was starting. So I started looking for platforms where I could sell my work and I basically couldn't find anything. So I started getting some gigs as an animator on freelance platforms. I started offering my work. Funny thing is that, to be honest, I have never made, like, an actual animation. I was all test and just playing around with drawings, trying to make things that move with my iPad. So when I came to those platforms, you have to make a reel of your show, reel of the work that you have done. So I put everything that I have done at the moment there and I started offering my work, but to be honest, I had no idea what to do. Yeah, I started offering my services as an animator. And I started getting a couple of kicks and I made it work. I made it work. Everything went fine. And I started getting some reps and learning more about animation every time, more. So when the time came, when NFDs came in 2021, I was lucky enough. I had another lucky break. I had a good luck break. I was just making my research around February 2021, and I started learning about nfTs. So I talked to my brother on Panama, and he told me that I knew a girl called itself, and she was into generative art, and he started talking to me about her. And they didn't actually know each other personally, but they used to chat a lot, and it ended up being its shell jar, it's shelves. Maybe you know about her. Ix shells. Ix shells, yeah. Ix shelf, yeah. I started talk, chatting to her, with her. She's from Panama, too. And she saw me, my work, and she told me that she had never seen anything that looked like that. And she talked that I had a chance with NFT. So it was March, I think, 2021. She gave me an invitation to foundation and I started minting my work there. And that's how things started. Oh, man. Wow, that's a really great person to kind of get you into the space. Yeah. You know what the funny thing is that she's awesome. She's helped me a lot. She's been like a good friend and taught me a lot, especially back in the day. When I met her back in 2021, it was just before everything blew up for her. She wasn't an awesome artist like she is today, but she wasn't like a legend. Yeah, no, I know what you mean. She has blown up now for sure. Yeah. It was crazy, to be honest. I talked to her when she made the first big sales that she had, and she was so excited and happy and she didn't know what was happening. She was as shocked as everybody because she knew what she was capable of doing. But sometimes you know what you are capable of doing, but it has to be like a combination of luck and talent and everything. And she had her break and now the rest is history. Yeah, no, I know what you mean. Even if you have the talent, sometimes it takes other people time to come around to your style of art or work because it's all subjective too. Something you might like, someone else might not like. You said it's a little bit of luck, a little bit of everything. Man, that's crazy. That's an awesome story. Have you actually met her in real life now? Actually not. Because we started talking in 2021, and I haven't been back to Panama since that year, since the pandemic hit, I haven't get back. I'm making plans of going this year to holidays. So maybe we're going to have a chance, finally meet in person. But she's been super cool, man. She actually collected my first piece on foundation. And she's always been really supportive of what I do. And when somebody that has had so much success gives you those kind of kind words and talks well about you, it makes you feel hopeful that someday you can have. Not the same, obviously, but that you can make it. Yeah, no, I know what you mean. Yeah, it's reinforcing. Yeah, I know what you mean. Agreed. Yeah. Validation is validation. Man. That's a crazy story, man. No, seriously. So what is the source of your inspiration for your current art or just in general? As you can see, architecture is always present in the things that I. You don't have to ask. Most of the people ask me without knowing, are you an architect? Right. Without seeing my bio or reading the information, architecture is always present. But one of the things that comes to my mind is that my work is a reflection of the things that has happened to me in my life. Like, architecture is like what I used to do for most of my life. The toys that I used to play when I was a kid, I used to play with Lego all the time. I used to play with transformers. And those things are always present. There are always mechanical stuff in my drawings, in my illustrations, my animations. They are transforming things all around. One of the things that I love the most doing is morphing figures. Things that change from one way to another. Like I said, it's a reflection of the things that I've enjoyed the most in my life. Technology. And I'm kind of old now. I'm 44. I grew up when MTV was a thing. So when I used to watch MTV as a teenager, as a young adult, I enjoyed those. How do they call them? Like those commercials when the MTV logo that morphs into things. I don't know if you have seen them. MTV intent. I'm not remembering the word, but I know what you mean. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was like the intro between commercials. We used to see, like, MTV's logo in 3d, morphing into things. And they used to hire are some of the best artists around, visual artists, to make one of those, the MTV logo animations. So I always saw that thing, those kind of morphing things stuck in my head. And I don't watch much these days, much less MTV. But every time that I see those animations, it's like going back to the future. Yeah, it's like back to. Back to the day, man. I know you're bringing back memories now. Yeah, it was super cool. Every now and then I google MTV logo. I think that the word was intent. Intent. I don't know. MTV. I used to google things like MTV logo animation, MTV promo, MTV campaign, things like that, and MTV Gif animated, gif everything. And so that was a real inspiration for me, always. That's awesome, man. Yeah. Sometimes you find inspiration in places that you wouldn't think I would think you would say, like your dad or something. No, my dad is an artist, too. When I was talking about galleries, I used to go a lot to galleries because of my dad, because growing up in Panama, my dad did pretty good as an architect, but he liked art. So when in Panama, there was in the late 80s, early ninety s, there was a crisis all around the country with a dictatorship. Dictatorship. And architecture was all architects were struggling to get work. Somia, pal. My dad switched to art, and he make a lot of art shows, and I went to a lot of galleries, but like I said, I never saw things like the things that I really wanted to do. So he's an inspiration. He's always been a role model for me, but we have different states in art. Yeah. I was actually going to ask you, what does your dad think about, does he know that you're in web three and what you're doing? Yeah, he does. What does he think? Most of the time doesn't understand what's going on. But he likes the visual stuff because as an artist, he sees my animation, he sees me working. He always praised it and he always felt like, ming, how the hell did you do that? How did you make it? The day that I explained him that my animations are all frame by frame, he told me like, man, you're crazy, man, you're crazy. You're a masochist. How the hell can you do that? Oh, man, I know. I was watching your YouTube video that you posted on how you create some of your pieces, and I'll post a link for people when they're listening to the podcast. But that was pretty crazy, man, to watch. Yeah, I like that you did that behind the scenes stuff. I always appreciate that kind of stuff, but, yeah, very complex. How many layers do you do? It depends on the piece. And it's something that, to be honest, is getting out of control. Every piece has more and more layers. And sometimes I'm telling myself, like, man, you have to stop. Because back in the first animation that I ever made, the funny thing is that they were made completely on procreate for iPad. Yeah, I saw that. I saw you were using procreate. Yeah, I work in procreate, but the way I work now, I make an entire composition. I then animate every layer on itself, like in a different file. And then at the end, I put it all together on the computer on final cut pro. But that's my entire workflow these days. But back in the day, I used to do everything on procreate with procreate's animation tools that are obviously frame by frame. So the first works that I actually minted, they were made starting from an animation. I'm sorry, from an illustration. So it was an illustration that it was already done. So I took it like an experiment to let's see what happens if I make this illustration start moving until it disappears, like as this decomposition. So I started, my friends, the people that have seen how I work, they told me, like, man, you're crazy. I can get a grip of what you're doing because I started to erase them and draw again, erase, draw again, erase, draw again. Everything until the image disappears. Yeah. It's crazy to me to think about, because I've used procreate before and I tried animating some stuff, and it's exactly what you're saying right now. I mean, that's the only way I could think of how to create that animation. But I'm not like an artist or anything. But it sounds like, yeah, it's painful. But it's fun at the same time because one of the things that I really take pride in is on hard work. Obviously, it's not like a comparison on two completely different levels. But one of my favorite artists on the space is Jack fried. And you're familiar with his work. It's all hand drawn, everything hand drawn and scanned. It's crazy. And to me, when you can make something that looks awesome and you like it and there's a lot of hard work behind it, it makes it. In my opinion, it makes it better, but it's my personal. Yeah, yeah. I think his pieces are crazy because I was, like, reading on Twitter that he said that he uses is know. That's just crazy. It's super crazy. I've seen a lot of interviews, and I've seen even a couple of videos of his work of behind the scene process. And it's crazy, man. He starts using liquid paper and painting on top of the thing that I do is hard and it's digital. I have to redraw a lot of stuff and erase and draw. But just the idea of making it by hand, it's super crazy. And to be honest, if I had the time, I would love to do one of those, one using his style. And he follows me on Twitter and I chat with him, a couple of small conversations. And I've been always fantasizing with the idea of, okay, one day I'm going to do one of my works with his style, with his workflow, all by hand. I'm going to send it to him to see, to hear what he has to say. Maybe he likes it. Yeah, I think that would be fun. I think that'd be cool to see one of your pieces done in his format. Yeah, it's incredible. Also crazy, though. Yeah. Would you use whiteout too? Maybe. One thing that happens to me is that sometimes I have a lot of friends, artist friends, that are always complaining about or not complaining, are worried about creative block, about having a creative block. Like, man, I don't know what to do. I need to make a new piece and I don't know what to do. And I have the contrary, this is exactly the contrary, what happens to me. I have so many ideas that I plenty of time, most of the times get a little bit frustrated because I can't make things happen, all because I don't have enough time. Now that I have kids, it's like way worse. But we were talking about was once I have a little notebook where I write everything that I want to do. And I once write that I wanted to do something like Jack Fred, dudes, but also using scissors, like cutting out things and making it like a lot of layers and transforming everything. And those things are sometimes trapped in my head and I can't do it because I don't have the time. Yeah, time is hard, man. Recently my wife had a kid, or we have a kid. And I agree with you, time is hard. Everything changes forever. Yeah, that's pretty much it. I wasn't trying to be too over exaggerate, but yeah, it does change. Yeah. Speaking of, kind of something that I was thinking about, I think you were talking about how you write things down that you want to do kind of random. Have you ever thought about. Because I was looking at your most recent piece, which is around Pepe. Yeah, I guess we can't say the word pepe either because apparently they got the ip or whatever, but the frog. Have you ever thought about doing a fake rare. Yeah, actually, I was thinking about it when I was creating this piece. Yeah, that's exactly it. I was like, this piece would have been one. This piece is amazing. I really like this feel like because I was just thinking about. The reason why I'm thinking about it is because Jake freed, he has a really cool fake rare as well. And you were talking about doing something in his style. But I was like, oh, yeah, what about a fake rare? Yeah, I told her about it because you remember when I think it was like one and a half years ago when everybody was doing pepes and frogs everywhere. Yeah, exactly. It was like for season nine or whatever. I swear, it was like some of the biggest names were all doing fake rares. Yeah, everybody. So I know that I remember how is his name? One of the collectors, I always mess up with the name. They were collecting every pepe that was on foundation and everything. And I was flirting with the idea of making it, but I was like, man, I don't want to make a pepe piece because everybody's doing it. I want to make it when the time is right. Yeah. So I didn't want it to do it just because everybody was doing it. So I decided to wait. I've been in the space for two and a half years, and this was my 50th one. And I decided to go with Pepe and with the frog. And it has a lot of to do with some conversations I had with some collectors and curators. I'm actually finishing the vertical crypto art residency. I've been part of that for the past couple of months. It's been awesome. I had the chance to listen to classes from really ogs and big time artists and collectors. And one of the things that stuck in my head was when one of the curators that I don't remember her name, actually, that she is a curator in real life in New York, in a couple of art galleries and also on Webtree. And she said something that stuck in my head that was that art should be a reflection of the time that we are living in, and memes are part of the world we're living in. That's why there's a lot of people. At the beginning, I wasn't sure because I didn't know too much. Not living in the states. I come from a different culture, and the meme culture is something that has started to taking off around here in Latin America, but it isn't something as strong as in the states. Yeah. So that kind of made me start thinking about things that reflect our culture. And now I'm working on a new series on super rare that is all centered around that. And that was the first piece that I minted from that new collection. Oh, that's awesome, man. Thank you for the little alpha. Thanks. The series that you're going to be working on super rare is all kind of like, around cultural aspects that are happening right now. Basically, it's called web three. So it's around web three and everything that's going on in web three. Got it. So that first one was about Pepe. There might be a couple here and there, some other iconic web three characters, maybe cryptopunk around there. Yeah. But everything that I worked really hard on creating a visual language that people can recognize. So hopefully, to be honest, that's one of the best compliments I got since being on web three when someone tells me that, hey, man, I saw your latest work on Twitter scrolling down and I recognize it before seeing your name. So that's what I'm aiming for these days. I'm playing around with some different stuff because I don't want to get stuck always in the same style. But it's important for me that people can recognize what. Agreed. Yeah. You don't want to be limited too much. Like you're. Yes. Yeah. And maybe that's where the Jake freed thing comes. Like, that's how you can pivot to something else. Yeah. Let's see. Hey, want to talk to you about Djin's agreement. All this content is brought to you for free, but I want to thank all the premium subscribers, the shitheads out there that are paying. I appreciate you guys helping me continue make this endeavor free for others. So if you are not a paying subscriber, if you could like and subscribe, that'd be greatly appreciated. Let's get back to the show. See you. Yeah, I think kind of going back a little bit, too. Sorry, we're going a little bit all over the place, I think. I wanted to ask you, are you on discord? Right. Yes, I am. But to be honest, I'm not pretty good at discord. No worries. Yeah, I was going to just ask you where you spend most of your time in web three. Is it mostly on Twitter? Are you hanging out on any discord servers or anything like that? I know we have a couple of friends in common. I hang out on the click discord. A couple sometimes spend some time there. That's one of the coolest communities I've been able to be part of those guys. OG has been super supportive with me. We've chatted a lot. He has given me a lot of advice. I think he and Cardinal were my first collectors on super rare. Yeah, I saw that, actually. Yeah, that's actually how I found you. I think I told you that on was like, I forget what I was doing. One day, I think I was looking at OG's wallet. I don't know why I was doing that. There must have been something I was doing. But then I saw your piece and I was like, whoa, that's super cool. Who is this? Or what is this? And then I saw. I was like, okay, so OG, Cardinal, I was like, all right. These guys were early on, this guy. I was like, okay. And then that's how I found out about you was through. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, they are super cool, man. And they've been really supportive. And Cardinal, both of them have, like, two or three of my works. Yeah, I think they have more than one for. Yeah, the click is a good place, man. And OG is super awesome. I've actually met OG in person, and he's just as nice in person as well. Yeah, I haven't met him in person, but we have a couple of video calls, and he's a real guy, man. When you talk to him, he's exactly how he writes. Exactly. Oh, yeah. It's not like that is 100% facts for OG. The way that he writes and talks on Twitter is exactly how he is in real life, too, which is awesome, man. Yeah, no filters. Yeah, no filters. Yeah. Very real person and gives good advice and all that as well. No, it's good that you hang out there, man. Yeah. So I met OG through Alpha Dog, so I'm slowly starting to get up to speed on what he's been up to and what he's doing and stuff like that. So I wanted to talk to you about. I think we were just talking about some of the early pieces and all that. I believe your first piece that you minted was called game on. Yes. So what made you. Why that piece? Why was that one the first one that you wanted to mint? That one especially because that was actually my first animated work. My first animated work with the visual style that I have now. Because when I first moved here to Argentina, 2017, I had the luck of meeting the architecture association president, which was the mother of a guy that I know, and she saw my work and she told me, amen. We should make an exhibition of your works in the architecture school building. So I was like, yeah, let's go. Let's do it. So I started creating a lot of pieces, mostly around architecture. There's a collection that I made called Skyscraper City. Skyscraper. I don't remember the name, but the thing is that they were all tall buildings. And that one that you mentioned, game on, was the only one that was animated. So back in the day, that was an experiment. That was something like, amen. I want to create one of my pieces with movement, but I knew that that was something that was not going to be able to be sell to anyone. It was before NFDs. So in that moment, it was like something to show people the potential of the things that I could do. Like, amen, I can do this, but I can't sell it to you because how the hell I'm going to sell it to you. So that's the funny thing about. Because what the hell? Three years after that, we were in the NFT space selling my animated works more than my illustration. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, it was like, man, I want to do this animation. I remember that. I spent a lot of time making it, and when I finished, I was feeling a little guilt, like, man, I love this, but I spent a lot of time of this and I can't sell it to anyone. So I felt a little guilty because, man, maybe I spent that time making an illustration that I could sell a print as a print. So that right there, game on, is like the beginning of my NFT adventure, for lack of better word. No, it's a great word, man. It is an adventure. No, that's awesome. I love that story. So obviously that's one of the pros of NFTs, and I don't have to tell you the pros, but has there been any limitations that you've encountered with using crypto technology to distribute your digital art, or has it all been pretty positive? For the most part. It'S been positive. Really. Sometimes there are things that, I can be biased, in my opinion, because sometimes there are things that favor you. Like, for example, when I got into foundation back in the day, that time, it was by invitation only. It was like a more exclusive platform. And also it's funny because I remember that there were people that were dming me because back in the day, you see behind, under the artist's name, you could see who invited. Yeah, yeah, I remember. And under my name there was ix shelf. So people like, whoa, man, he's a friend of ix shelf. So I think that that might be like a good break for me, a big break. But what I was saying is that my experience has been good. It was better at the beginning of foundation. Because every time I sold a piece, I stayed, like, for a week on the main page. And being on the main page meant that there were a lot of people following me and buying my work. It was crazy, man. I think that in 2021, on the middle of 2021, I used to mint things in my works, and they were like, the same day they started having bits. Long story short, all my experience has been good, but it's always a matter of exposure. When the platforms give you the opportunity to be seen, it's always better for the artist. So I think that's something that a lot of artists have been complaining on web three. I don't want to call it gatekeeping, because it is changed for the best at some of the platforms, but there are platforms where it's really difficult to be showcased, like featured. Yeah, agree. Yeah, there's a lot more people, too. I know what you mean. Like being on the front page of foundation even for a couple of days. I'm sure that's very helpful. Even now, I feel like nowadays that would be helpful. Yes, it definitely is. And in 2021, I used to be twice a week. Like twice a week. It was, like, constant, so it changed. And I, and I understand the reasons and I understand the creation part and everything, but it's cool when you feel that you can get one of those opportunities. And foundation, to be honest, to me, is one of the best platforms in terms of innovation. They are always tweaking things and trying to come up with new stuff. I love super rare two, but foundation is more innovative. And I also love Nifty Gateway. I know that there's a lot of people that don't like nifty, but the guys on Nifty has been real nice to me. I had a very successful drop at the beginning of the year, and I'm having a new one on August. If everything goes well, one of their feature created drops. So let's see how it goes. That's awesome, man. Yeah, I like foundation. I mint some stuff as well, and for some reason, I never really like, I use manifold and then list it on Opensea, but I think I like the way more that listing and bidding and all that happens in foundation versus Opensea. Yeah, it's a good platform. Yeah, it's really nice. It's really intuitive and user friendly. Yeah, exactly. Yes. I know we're a little bit over time, but I got, like, two more questions, if you have time. Yeah, I have the time. And to be honest, I think that you're going to have to cut a lot of the things because I talk too much. I always say it, I talk too much. No, you're good. Is there any artist currently, right now that you admire or that you think is underrated or deserves more attention in your personal opinion? There are a couple I like everfresh. I like everfresh. I like his work a lot. I like the hyena. I have a couple of friends that. It's not like I want to plug them in, but there's people that has done some cool things. The only collaboration that I ever made, I know that I have to make more and I have plans of doing it, but for some reason I haven't made enough. But the only collab I made with splits and everything is with boxhead. It's a female spanish artist. She lives in the UK, but we make a pretty good piece together. She makes some cool stuff also. My friend four or four tier is a friend of mine from Poland that he's an architect too. He's a very, how do you say, versatile artist. Because he spends a lot of time being a tattoo artist. He makes some cool tattoos, but he's in web three and he's minted a couple of really nice pieces. I really like his style because he most works most with black and white. You should see it. It's pretty cool. And I don't know who else can I say? Yeah, send me the links, man. I could put them in the show. I could put it in the show notes too. Awesome. Because my mind might be. I can be forgetting a couple of my good friends. Yeah. No, can you can plug your friends as well? Not a problem, man. That's that new friend technology as OG and the birds call it. Yeah, I'm a big fan. One of my favorite is. Yeah, yeah, one of the best. And Macbeth. I'm a big fan of Macbeth before nfts. Yeah, Macbeth is awesome, man. I just recently got my first, actually, I think I got my second Macbeth piece Nft recently. So I went from like zero to now I have two. Yeah, McBest is awesome. He's awesome. Remember that when I told you about my art blog? I made post of him like in 2010. So since 2010 I've been following his work. It's crazy. It's 13 years ago. Yeah, that's a while back, man. Yeah, McBess is. He's doing some cool stuff too, like with Shopify and all that. And he's huge now. Even bigger now. I'd say let's see, what else do we have? Yeah. So for anyone that's listening and maybe they're not familiar with you or anything. What do you think is the best way to get a piece from you right now? What's the best entry into a piece of yours? Well, I have a couple of minted works on Tesos on object. Obviously, those are the most accessible to everyone. Yeah, most of my works have been minted on Ethereum, but I'm available on foundation and super rare and nifty. I've been working a lot more with editions lately, part because of the bear market and also because, I don't know. I started navigating on web three even though I had some pretty good help from ihl and a couple of artists that have been really helpful with me. Like Nicolas Bassoon is one of the. I think that one of the artists that has helped me the most, he's always there when I need to talk with someone and ask for advice. I've been working on a couple of new projects that I want to, you know, async. I haven't minted anything on async, but one of the things that I want to do pretty soon is to create an interactive NFT on Xing. I submitted my information like, one and a half years ago and they accepted me, but I haven't minted anything yet, and I feel really bad about it. And also fx hash on Tesos that now is cross platform. They are now working with Ethereum. I have an idea of a project, that generative project I want to make with my drawings, but I'm looking for someone for a generative artist because at the beginning I was like, man, I'm going to learn to code and I'm going to do it all on myself. And no, man, that's not it. I need to work with somebody. That's funny. Yeah. The type of things that I've learned on web three is that, man, I made a lot of friends, and sometimes I'm curious about things like sound. There's just one piece that I created with sound, and I think that that's one of the ones that OG collected. But I think that I'm going to start collaborating more on that kind of stuff, like working with some sound designers and generative artists to create stuff and keep doing the things that I'm good at. So not start complicated things by wanting to do everything myself. Yeah, no, I mean, I totally get it. I'm kind of like that, too. I sometimes need, like, a project to force me to learn things, and I like learning stuff like that, especially now with like, chat, gpt you could probably use it to help you do it, but sometimes you just want to execute it better or it might take you too long. And as you were saying earlier, time is critical or a limited resource. So that could be something you could partner up with someone to do. Yeah. And to finish that part of my project, there's a project that I'm really proud of, but actually, I did a terrible job of marketing it. It's a project that I made December of last year that's called momo blocks. That's basically a modular project. Modular project. You know, that I told you that I work. Everything that I do is layer is, like, in different layers. Well, momo blocks is like a modular project of animations, like mock animations, like Lego pieces that then I put them all together into one piece, and they create a different story, a different art piece from modular pieces. For example, I can have a head that opens that splits in two, and then there's an element that comes out of it, and that one that's just a little corner on this big piece, but I then put it up in a different place in another piece, and that's, like, exchangeable pieces. So I made that project, and I've been creating a very big module library, so I have hundreds of different small animations that I can exchange them from different places. So momo blocks was the first collection. That was the first that I minted last year, and now I'm going to do, like a big. Do you know those drops? Foundation drops. Yeah. I'm thinking about doing one of that with a PFP project based on momoblocks. Oh, wow. Okay. Box heads. One of those with eyes, but the eyes are still looking at you, at the camera. And in the back, the head is transforming and having a lot of elements and things, machines working behind. To be honest, I think it's easier to see it than explain it. But maybe when it is ready, and I'll let you know so you can understand a little bit better what I'm saying. Yeah, let me know, man. Yeah, be happy to check it out. Awesome. Yeah, let's see. All right. Just because I got to go get my kid, too. All right. I don't know if you know this, but originally, this whole thing, I used to call it pinchos. And I don't know if you know what pinchos are, but they're like tapas for bass people. So with that said, what's your favorite snack? Oh, you mean, like, it has to be like sweet salad. I mean, like, how do you say savory no. Yeah. Or it can be sweet. It could be anything, man. Yeah. It just can't be a full meal. Here in Argentina. The sweet desserts are out of control. It's crazy. So it's hard to get hooked with all of these pastries and stuff. But I'm a big ice cream person. Oh, you like ice cream? All right. Like, a lot. And people talk about italian ice cream, like, the best ice cream in the world, and I don't went. Remember when my brother was studying in New York? I remember that he took me to a place that was the best italian ice cream in New York, and I had my really high expectations, and it doesn't compare to the ice cream in Argentina. I don't know why. It's incredible. It's the milk, man. La leche. Yeah. Argentina is a country known for the meat and the milk and the production. It's incredible how high quality those things are around here. When I have friends that come from other countries, from the states and stuff, they can't believe the meat. No, man. And also, when you come from other country with euros or dollars, it's super cheap, too. Yeah. I got to go to Argentina really bad. You have to. You have to just let me know when you are around here so I can take you out. Yeah, man. For to. If they have, like, a Copa Libertadores in Argentina, I feel like if I could get tickets, I would definitely go. Yeah. I think the next one's in the US, though. Oh, yeah. You mean the World cup? No, the. I I'm not sure when it. That's like the south american club soccer competition. Yeah, I know the cup, but I'm. Forgetting where it is. I love football. I love soccer, but that's, like, my number two. I live in a country where football is number one, two, three, and four. But I'm a basketball fan. Big time, long time basketball. NBA fan. Oh, yeah. I love basketball. Yeah. Both those sports. You're doing well with both those sports. Which team do you like in the NBA? You watch NBA, right? Yeah. You want to know? I told you I talked too much. But I'm going to tell you my team, and I'm going to tell you a funny story. I'm a longtime suffering New York Knicks fan. Oh, wow. Okay. I've been a Knicks fan since 1991, I think. 1991. No championships, a lot of pain, a lot of suffering. But I can switch teams at this age. It's been a long time. Yeah. No, you can't switch. It's not allowed, man. It's not allowed. It's not allowed. And the funny thing is that I've been a long time, all my life, hopes junkie. When I was in 2010, when I was in Panama, there was a tv station there that used to wear the NBA games. And they made a trivia competition that the first prize on the competition, you had the chance to win a trip to New York and meet the New York Knicks players, my team. So I entered the competition, and I ended first in points. But when the competition ended, they say, man, the people with the four best score have to come to the tv station and work as a broadcast, like a commentator for one quarter, each person on live tv. Wow. So I go to the station, I wanted to win my trip, and I did one quarter. It was a game between Miami Heat and Chicago Bulls. And the funny thing is that I didn't want the competition. They gave the prize to a girl that was there, and later on, I learned that she was a friend of somebody in the tv station. But the thing is that two weeks later, they called me and told me that they wanted me to work for them. So I started working on tv with, like, an NBA commentator. It was a crazy story. Yeah, that sounds like a whole separate life almost, man. Yeah. Because I was architect by day, at the night. I went to the tv station for three years, until I moved to Argentina. I was like an NBA tv broadcaster. Wow, that's crazy, dude. That is crazy. Yes. That's super crazy. Super crazy. My younger daughter, she had the opportunity to see me on tv, so she was three years old, but she used to say, sometimes I send her, I want to say hello to my daughter at the end of the transmission. So it was cool. Yeah, that sounds cool, man. I talked too much. No, you're good, man. You're good. Yeah, I'm just cracking up that you're dick's fan and that you were, like, a sports commentator. You should have started with. You were a tv announcer first. A person of many talents. A person what? Of many. Thanks. Thank you. It's crazy. It's crazy. It done a lot of things in my life. You have no idea. Yeah, man. That sounds like an eventful life. And you're still young, man. 40 is young. 44. Yeah, you're still young, man. It's old for web three, I think we're grandpa's. Me and you are Grandpa's in web three, but for real life, you're young. Yeah, that's right. Well, I wanted to thank you, man. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me and telling me about your story and your art and everything, man. Sack. I see. I see it.