Rezva

Episode 3: Gramajo (@0xGramajo) is joined by Rezva (@rezvaexe). In the rich tapestry of names and identities, one stands out with simplicity and intrigue: Rezva. Born Katya in the vibrant landscapes of Ukraine, Rezva is a moniker gifted to her in the schoolyards of her childhood, an endearing nickname that blossomed from a spontaneous moment into an artist's signature. With its roots tracing back to her tender years at the age of seven, the name carries no significant meaning in Ukrainian, just an assembly of "funny letters" that resonated with her spirit. Unbeknownst to her playful peers, they had inadvertently christened her future artistic persona.
Rezva flourished as an ever-present undercurrent in her life, always pointing towards creativity and self-expression. As an artist, she delved into myriad forms of creation from a young age, molding her surroundings into canvases and her experiences into colors. Art became the one constant in a life otherwise characterized by eclectic labels and roles. When not immersed in her artistic endeavors, she dedicated herself to a full-time job in a field distinct from her passion, underscoring the duality of her life — one anchored in practicalities, the other in the boundlessness of art.
In essence, Rezva symbolizes the intersection of an ordinary life and extraordinary imagination, where the mundane becomes muse and the everyday fades into the backdrop of an artist's evolving story.

Date Recorded: April 10, 2023

Want to see more Weekend Degen? Subscribe to my YouTube channel here.

WDR Newsletter --> https://gramajo.substack.com/

00:00 Alias Rezva: Ukrainian artist with diverse talents.
05:48 Reflecting on early NFT involvement, growth, persistence.
15:28 Digital art allows multiple gallery showcases simultaneously.
19:09 Success in animation comes from short, diverse content.
23:52 Creativity thrives within social media constraints.
28:46 Creativity stems from analyzing and experimenting visually.
32:15 Creating surreal scenes through digital collages and animation.
37:42 Struggling with Dolly, exploring AI copilot.
43:31 Struggle to keep up with social media.
49:30 Balancing family and art may limit dedication.
56:20 Poor curation neglects women artists, requires improvement.
59:48 Considering Tezos for creating significant art collection.
01:06:14 Future AI FX Ash experiment with potential minting.
01:12:22 Attachment to artwork brings joy and support.
01:17:07 Legitimate complaints about timing of Defi projects.
01:22:26 Anticipation for New York and NFT meetups.
-----

Links:
Gramajo
Rezva

Music by: henriknorstedt

------

Transcript

0:00

But this hunt for attention, at the end of the day, the cash value of this is attention, people's attention. Yeah, as you said, just average Joe to get to notice me. And yeah, I don't think it's. Well, yeah, it's too much sometimes. What's up guys? Grajo here. This week's episode is with Revsa and artist from the Ukraine. Very happy and glad I got to sit down with her and speak with her about her art, the NFT space, being a woman in the space, monsters and everything in between. Thanks for tuning in and enjoy. Who is Revza? Obviously you don't have to dox yourself. Yeah, no problem. I mean, I don't mind doxing myself. In fact, I think I was using for quite some time my own photo on. Yeah, but I am Rezva. It's not my name, my name is Katya, but yeah, this has been my alias or how to call it since I think I was seven. For some reason kids at school gave me a penetrate stick and it doesn't really mean anything in ukrainian, just funny letters that actually worked for me and so I took it as my artist name too. So yeah, I'm from Ukraine, I'm an artist and I don't know, I think I have many labels to attach to me really, because I also work full time, which is not art related and many, many things like that. But yeah, there was this constant to me that this art and I was making things which can be considered artistic since very early age in different forms. I even went to some music school for a little bit, then I dropped, then I wrote poems, then I quit that. But then visual arts and digital art specifically was my thing for the longest time. Yeah, and for about two years now I am in NFT space as well. It's wonderful opportunities there to showcase my art, to develop my art as well, to grow as an artist. So I was doing that. I'm still doing NFDs. I cannot say I'm collector. I don't think it applies to me fully, but yeah, I do collect some other art too, and I make gifs, they loop and that's my main focus lately, doing animated scenes, abstract or not, different ways but different content. I mean, but I prefer making animated things lately. So to be short, this is pretty much it and we can go on from there. Awesome. I'm glad that you actually explained if it had any meaning or not. I was actually pretty curious if it did have any meaning, like your name or if it meant something, but seems like it's just like a name that came through in school and it just kind of stuck. Well, actually in Ukrainian, it's not exactly, but there is a russian meaning. Riesva means like quick, fast. Maybe that's the closest one. But actually it's just closer to meaning nothing than something. Got it. That's awesome. I appreciate that. Yes, I know they jumped kind of into your background a bit. How did you actually end up getting into getting involved in web three? Or just what made you go from the traditional creating space to that web three? What was that for you? Well, people who knew about NFDs earlier than I did, and they just shared the knowledge with me. It was, I think, already in 2020. I was hearing about this and a few artists in the space. There was a little group of artists that we had chats. I don't think any of them are in our favorite monster discord. No, but they're still in NFT space. And so we were doing some art and sharing it on instagram, supporting each other. And then someone from that group actually said that there is this thing called NFTs and it might be very cool for artists. And yeah, this is how we started. Unfortunately, I didn't jump in on this train back in 2020, probably. That would be a great idea. Maybe not, I don't know, because I regret sometimes things I minted earlier those days. So I joined later, I think January 2021. It was my first mint. Unrearable. Yeah, pretty early. And looking back at this, I was relatively early because the majority of people jumped in, I think in summer 2021 or spring. But I don't know, was that head start meaningful for me or not? I still was figuring out anyway what I want to achieve as an artist and then what these old tokens mean. So it was still very confusing. But yeah, that was, story goes like this. And I'm glad, actually, that many of those people that I was starting with are still here. Some just gave up, I think, on nfds a little bit, but many still here and just really enjoying their art and growing as an artist. It's pretty cool to see. So it's been already two years and yeah, it's still, even a bear or bull market doesn't matter. And people are still here. Yeah, that's awesome that those initial people are still involved. Yeah, because definitely a lot of people have maybe given up or, I don't know, gone away for the winter and they'll come back at some point. But that's awesome that they're still involved even if they're not involved in the monsters server January 2021 is early. Yeah, turns out. Yeah. But again, it was also very confusing and things were changing and many things were imperfect. Like our choice to mint on openc shared contract or a crazy expensive wearable, your own contract that back then cost. I don't know. I didn't mint on my own contract because of those prices, like $500 or $800, I remember. For your own contract. And I understood back then that that's the way your own contract, shared storefront on OpenC. Probably not the best, but it was so expensive. Nowadays with manifold and things, it's much easier for folks to join this space. Agreed. Yeah. I think early on I looked at wearable as well when I joined in the fall of 21. And even then, I think you're right. I think it was like $500 just to be on your own contract, which, like you said, from a technical perspective, it made sense. But from let me mint to see where this thing goes, 500 is a very big entry fee. Yeah, definitely. Unless you've had big success in the traditional art space, which I don't know if you did before, but 500 is prohibitive for sure. Yeah, for many, I don't know. Some people took the risk and I saw some folks minting even back then. I think generally it's the right thing to do, to really believe in what you want to do and just risk it. Why not? Of course, it's huge sum of money for some, but yeah, I was more of cautious back then. And I think it's good because then eventually things came along like manifold or tezos or. Yeah, even greater things become available for us. And ultimately that was for the good that I didn't rush back then to try everything there was in this space. So did you initially, when you get started in the space, did you get started as a collector or as a creator? At first as a creator. But the thing is, I was minting everything. Well, I don't know. It was a completely different art style, and I was still figuring out things. I was making collages mainly, and that came from my works that I put out on instagram almost daily for a year or more. So I wouldn't, at least to me, if I look at what I was starting with, it's not exactly consistent. But then I see many other amazing artists who just completely all over the place with their style and technique, and I think maybe that's all right. Yeah, but I was starting as an artist, and then this whole thing opened up to me, like, yeah, it's amazing to collect as well and for profit or just to hunt gems. And this ownership, this understanding that it's a very interesting way of thinking about assets, digital assets. It was completely new. It captured me. And I also started collecting too, pretty early that day, that year. So, yeah, it was both. And then also in parallel to all of that, the main thing was happening that I was meeting people and just meeting other artists or collectors, which always felt like, sure, I would meet, but then it turned out to be really the focus of all this endeavor. Of course, I mean, creating and working on myself and on my art style is also central. But then this community thing was also, and still is amazing part to this whole journey. Agreed. Yeah. It's almost like the red pill kind of thing, where maybe you didn't think that you were going to meet people and make friends along the way, but you end up doing that. Yeah. Because usually, well, from the outside it looks like I work a lot, and then evenings, and sometimes nights I spend on art and it looks like it's very. Isolation is the way to look at it. But then you meet so many people. Yeah, that's true. And, yeah. Having fun. And eventually some get to New York to meet each other today. Yeah. They're having fun there. For example, monsters and stuff like that. It's amazing, really. Agreed. Agreed. Is there a big NfT scene in the Ukraine? Yeah, I mean, relatively big. Of course it's not huge. And definitely not every artist I know even knows about or definitely by this point, everyone heard about nfDs, but some are pretty active. I'm trying to estimate how many I know from Ukraine who are like around five. I mean, that's a lot for just those people that I knew before. And definitely there are way more, I think. Yeah, it's pretty popular. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, it seems like a lot of people are from Indonesia and the US, obviously, but yeah, was mostly curious around the country in general, like for crypto. Yeah. So that's good to hear. So it's not super isolating where you're like the only person that you. Know. I even know the artist who. I saw one exhibition in person, I can't remember which year it was, but definitely before nfts. And then I see him doing great in NFT space as. Oh, and then another animator from Ukraine. Yeah, like pretty few. That's awesome. That's always. That's great to see. Uh, like you said, exhibit in real life and then nfts later. Let me ask, um, what do you think are some of those advantages that blockchain technology gives you or offers you as an artist. I think you were talking about how you were learning about tokens and I'm guessing like ERc seven two ones and ercs eleven five five s and all that. But what do you think are the advantages that blockchain technology enables you as an artist versus the real world? Well, many of them are just differences. Some are just differences, some are real advantages. I think the biggest one would be, and especially with additions, is the opportunity to showcase your work at the same time in multiple galleries or in multiple wallets collections, but preferably galleries, of course, like on cyber or even some physical places, digital art. So it's not like the one painting, you have it and some gallery has it and it's only one spacetime confined way of making art. While here at the same place, you can have your art anywhere, even if it's 101. I think some galleries allow to show that piece even if you don't own it. So this is very new way of, I don't want to say consuming art, but just enjoying. Yeah, enjoying art and showcasing your art also to collect. And as a collector, I'm sure I also like collecting editions because this is. I think it's a huge plus actually, that other collectors also have this exact same piece in their collections. One hundred and one s are cool and unique. And yeah, they're obviously special because they're one. But yeah, editions are just fantastic way to share your work and to collect others work. And then of course this connections. And also, I'm not sure, it just doesn't relate to blockchain technology per se, but this whole NFT space is about showing your work to everyone across the globe because of Internet. So it's also easier to get seen really, and to get it in some discussions about your work, or especially if your work is political or some social commentary kind of art, that's obviously an easier way to show it. So many advantages. I think if I have a good thinking and you can spend pretty long time just on advantages, but on the other hand, I'm not thinking there are some limitations. I think there's also, on the other side, people who enjoy art have to sort of accept that this digital assets, tokens are real assets and this paradigm shift to just accept that. Yeah, okay, so I own it. That's in my wallet and that's proper ownership. And then everything comes along because if many just don't buy it, still obviously just say what is just a picture and there's some code on the blockchain and that means you own it now, either you're on it or not. And this might make it difficult for collectors and artists to just use it and to appreciate it. Yeah, I laugh because that's initially kind of my thought. I was like, okay, so you own a JPEG and there's like some cash. That's a valid point on the blockchain. I know for the longest time that was me. And then I realized it's so much more, especially with the animated stuff, because obviously if you work in animation and you do long form animation, you could probably find some success like that on the Internet. But it's like these ten second, eight second, 15 2nd animations that I feel like it's where it shines really strongly as well and in creating value for you as well. You don't have to spend a year working on something that's like a ten minute video, and then you might get success on that and might get paid for that. You could theoretically do something for a month and work on these like 15, 20 seconds, put it on the blockchain and find success and refine your style like a lot faster. Like the feedback loops a lot faster, obviously for photography and stuff like that, or just like still images, it's pretty quick. Either people like it or they don't. Yeah, but it was fairly old statistics that what sells on blockchain the best and usually still images were at the top of the, by and large. So the majority of, I think it was super rare, probably stats that animation was quite behind. And I thought, well, yeah, I don't know what to think of this, but yeah, maybe just easier to see and to just appreciate and all faster. With animation, you have to spend even those 10 seconds, you have to spend watching it. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know. Ultimately those are different genres. Even 10 minutes animation could be pretty successful as NFT or as an old form of just spend a year, make this animation and send it to festival and maybe it will be appreciated. And success is one side of this, but also the other side is just there is an artist and there are tools and just the urge to make it. Either this is a 20 minutes animation or just three frames animation. So yeah, definitely the space defines a lot of things. And if something works or sells, even better. Usually, of course it will alter some choices that artists do. But yeah, I know some artists are just with pretty long form animations still trying to make it here in NFT space and that also great to see. Yeah, I think you're right. You know what you were saying sales is like one side versus just that itch to create and whether people will actually like it or not, I think about in Instagram days or even in Instagram as a whole, images that are high saturation, full of orange like sunsets and stuff, those do extremely well in Instagram. And it's like just because they're popular, does that mean more people will create that kind of content because it's popular, because the algorithm keeps putting it in front of you. But some people don't like black and white film images or whatever. So I guess what I was trying to say is it's funny because just because something sells and it's popular doesn't necessarily mean it is the thing that people, I mean, it is the thing that people like. But if you don't fit in that. Yeah, you're going to that box. It doesn't mean that your stuff's not valuable or not worthy. Yeah, true. Although definitely you kind of have it a little bit more difficult to get seen. Or the same example with square art. I also fall into that category because quite often not everything I do square, but yeah, sometimes something is square because many platforms just showcase it as a square and it makes sense to just originally make the art square is strange, but yeah, this is how it works. But also I like to think that those kind of limitations actually can boost creativity, quite usually because if you just have this some kind of square or just a tool to use, and it's going to either get noticed better or sell, it's not necessarily ultimately a best and conformist thing to do because it can really open some new ways to create stuff. So everything is pretty complex in this space, so just can use whatever is available. But Instagram, that's a good example of how algorithm, rather not the platform, really creates. Funny to think about. Yeah. Like how it creates trends or whatever. Yeah, the square format is kind of hilarious because it's so perfect for your phone, but if you try posting that image on a tv, the aspect ratio is off. So it's funny. It's like, do you create for that phone usage or do you create for all the other usages? Like for example, the screen I'm looking at right now is not a square, it's a rectangle. And if you look at the token. I was just thinking. Digital displays and stuff. Yeah, exactly. Some things are not square and they won't look great and then other ones are square and they'll look fantastic in that square one. So it's just funny from that end. I do like the comment around limitations or being forced creatively to think of things differently. I think that's what made that eight bit Tezza's website apadu or know. I feel like that's what made it take off. It forces you to. It's actually very difficult to draw pixelated art. That looks good, that doesn't look bad. So those limitations are. I think that's what kind of makes me appreciate on chain art. Like fully on chain. Because there are. Yeah, fully on chain. Yeah, definitely. Because you can't just be like, okay, let me put an eight k video that's a minute long. Yeah, true. With a ton of audio. Because it's not going to fit, basically. Yeah. I hope fully on chain is the future somehow, because I keep thinking about this coming back to this comment, this token hash, and it links to your art, which is not on blockchain stuff. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Just art is art. But then, yeah, if we can have a fully on chain art that's conceptually would be just right to me, I think. But yeah, we'll see how it goes. Maybe it happens quite soon, I don't know. Yeah, we'll see. I think people are becoming more aware of on chain art versus the IPFs art. Not that there's one that's right or wrong. There's obviously pros and cons to both. But yeah, let's see. Going kind of continuing. What are your sources of inspiration for you? A lot of things. And usually not something specific, not books or films, although sometimes they are, but just. Okay. I think quite often I just try to analyze when I'm at my most creative, and this is when I was, when I open Photoshop and just do it, and some forms or some shapes or colors just come up and sometimes they don't, and I just leave it and just come back the other day. But yeah, usually the process itself is great inspiration, if that makes sense, just trying things or even I usually rewatch my photos from some galleries from Europe and from here too. I took a ton of pictures of art I liked. And yeah, I keep coming back to those. I definitely like abstract art or constructivist art, things like that, especially lately. And so I just keep looking at it and maybe generate something with mid journey to just keep it going. So it's a lot of things, technically speaking. But in general, I just really like this freedom art making gives me. I think that's it. As cliche as it sounds, this is true, especially animating things, because it's like a free fall, you just have a thing or a shape or a line, and then you just yourself, frame by frame, make it whatever you want. It's amazing. Just great feeling. And that feeling also is inspiring that what I like a lot to experience and. Yeah. So the process ultimately is what is at the core of it. Thanks for that. Now that you're talking about it, how would you actually define, like, if you had to give it a name, your style of art? Oh, I really have no idea. I think someone asked Des in his discord about his art. This is a glitchy artist or not. And he just contemplating that. And then he mentioned something like boiled line animation or something like that. Yeah. And I was reading that and thinking, yeah, that's kind of what I do too. Yes. Just animating the same frame, redrawing it a few times so that it doesn't look steel, but it's like atmospheric moving. I think that. But really, I don't think I can have a definition for my art, for my technique, about the substance of it. I do different things. I like abstract. I have a few attempts on them, not too many, but I really enjoy doing this abstract art. Some surreal elements, too. For example, with Sova, I have something surreal. I at least try and attempt on creating some surreal scenes where there is a character and common things, but mixed up in different. In a way that doesn't feel real. Yeah, that's a very dumb way of me to say, to defining surreal, but yeah, that's it. Also, before I jumped back to what I really like, this animation and drawing digitally, I used to do a lot of collages. I don't say it's my favorite body of work of mine, really, because it was just experimenting and just really playing around with Photoshop and just an exercise for my imagination, really. But I minted some of that stuff too. Early days. Yeah, but collage too. And both photo collage. And then I animated some of the collages too. So a lot of stuff really. I don't think I have definite style. Maybe someone more knowledgeable in art styles can look at my art and define it. I don't know, but yeah, no worries. It's definitely super hard to describe it. And I know that you've been exploring too fx hash as well, and other parts. Yeah. And we can talk about that in a bit. Yeah. I've been really enjoying the Resva editions on the ones for manifold, so, like, the ones that move, those have been really fun for me. Like fragile and routine. They're very fun to look at and just stare at for a while. Nice. Thanks. Yeah, for me too, it was fun to make them, although with them it looks very simple, but then it's hard to get that first frame right and then animating. It's a lot of fun. Also a lot of work, but then to research and to get things right in terms of color and shapes. Kind of a challenge sometimes, but yeah, definitely fun for me to make too. I really hope I will get more time, hopefully this next week and in the coming weeks to get more of those editions I really like. And I like manifold too. And what opportunities it gives to artists for drops and get some not necessarily burn, I'm not sure yet, but just things you can do with claim page is fun. So it also augments our artistic expression to some extent and just enables us to reward collectors, which is also very important. What are the tools? Actually, I think you've mentioned Photoshop. What are the tools that you use to like, let's say for example, routine, your addition piece. What tools did you kind of use for that piece? To create and build. Yeah, Photoshop and tablet, just to draw and animate, I think with routine. I also generated a whole bunch of mid journey things just to, but it's not consistent. I remember I really liked some little pieces, little elements on some outputs, which I might take as an inspiration for some shapes. But then the next generation is completely not what? I don't know, maybe I don't use it exactly right. So sometimes it's great for concept art and sometimes it's not, even though it's the exact same prompt. But in terms of technical tools, just Photoshop and some of my favorite brushes and presets and tablet. Awesome. I know exactly what you mean about that mid journey. I think my prop skills are not to India robots levels. Yeah, because I can never get what I have in my head into an image. And probably I just need to work on my prompts, but I know exactly what you mean. But it is a good tool to kind of like you said, you might find something you like and you can borrow from that or modify it to your will. Yeah, definitely. No, sometimes it's really fantastic and sometimes, again with exact same prompt. It's so different. And I think it's something to do with the way it works or the way AI behind it works. I'm not sure. Probably it evolves and learns. It's not consistent for me, but still great. I think there are some other, like Dali I haven't researched. I know, maybe you have, but maybe some better tools are available or more interesting. I'm not sure I have to dive in. Yeah, I use Dolly and to be honest, I think I struggled with it even more. I think your prompt writing has to be even better for Dolly because I feel like I got frustrated with it and then went straight to mid journey. And I definitely got way closer on mid journey than I did with Dolly. Again, this is just, I'm an amateur when it comes to this stuff. I'm still exploring how these AI copilot assisted kind of things work, like how I can incorporate them into my regular work more often. So I just went down that rabbit hole more this past week and I plan to spend some more time. But yeah, it seems like I got to get really good with my prompts and it kind of makes me appreciate AI art a little bit more. People are like, anyone can do that. Try it yourself. It's not that. Yeah, exactly. You try it yourself. And I'm like, nah, I can't do that. Yeah, true. But I like everything related to AI. I don't know, I think it's fantastic. We're in the beginning of something truly great, not just for art in general. Very interesting to see sometimes scary if you take some ideas about AI seriously, but yeah, very cool. Have you encountered any challenges or limitations kind of while being in the NFT space, either with your art or just in general, like someone copy minting you or anything like that? Oh, that. Yeah, I now can recall one time, but probably happened a few times where someone I know actually copied. Well, it was very clear that they copy my ideas, but I mean, it's not too crucial. And definitely, I guess if I had crazy, crazy sales and someone just stealing or huge money involved, then maybe I would be thinking different. But just other people just stealing something. It's not that big of a deal in the end of the day. Yeah, no, I think maybe the overarching challenge for me to even keep up to speed with NFT space was that a lot of things just have to work outside of that offline in real life and work and a lot of challenges related to the war and a lot of stuff. And that was the biggest challenge in terms. There was a point where in the very beginning I was very up to speed with the latest things. I would say like a hand just came out and I'm just know what's up tezos and I like a few days and I know what's going on and I was spending nights and really not missing much, which takes a lot if you want to be up to speed in FD space, especially those first year when everything was developing like crazy. But then, yeah, I just cut myself. Not even, I don't know, ordinals. I heard you were very much. You're knowledgeable about those. And I still didn't have time to just learn, at least learn, what are those? Bitcoin, nfDs, stuff like that. So I think this is the challenge right now that if taken seriously, I do take it seriously. But if you want to get the most success, most fun, and most everything, you have to be, well, full time pretty much here and really learning about everything. And I cannot do it, even though I want. So probably that's the challenge then. Many minor ones, probably there was some, but really, I think, okay, the other one we can mention is this Twitter user interface to all nfTs. Sometimes it felt like a great platform to just promote your stuff and to jump in some interesting discussions to see other art. But then it became a little bit, you have to do it to get seen, and it's not fun and doesn't really feel like it makes much sense, but you have to tweet and engage this social media side of things. I cannot say I hate it. I'm okay with that. But it gets repetitive and not that meaningful of a connection, usually with people you don't know. Usual social media stuff where when it connects with me wanting to promote my art, it does get tedious and I don't really enjoy it. Discord. Much better, much more personal and genuine. So, yeah, that would be the second big challenge. Yeah. It could be exhausting, like you said, to try and stay on top of it all. And I think the expectation as the space grows that people are going to be plugged in 24/7 it's just not going to scale, especially with these crazy mechanics that some of these projects are coming up with. It's fine for now because I think we're in a bear market and people get bored, I guess. But expecting the average Joe to be plugged into more than 25 or 30 discord servers and following a ton of people, it's exhausting for sure. And like you said, as an artist, too, the bad thing about those algorithms, too, is if you don't post on Twitter for like a week because you've been heads down working on your art the day that you actually come to promote it, the system penalizes you for not posting for the past week. So your engagement levels are low. And, yeah, it becomes like homework, like you said. Yeah, but I don't know if we'll ever overcome this maybe with completely new technology behind social media or just any kind of promotion platforms. But this hunt for attention, at the end of the day, the cash value of this is attention, people's attention, as you said, just average Joe to get to notice me. And, yeah, I don't think it's. Well, yeah, it's too much sometimes and it feels not genuine every time. Not every GM is genuine for me. Just in case on Twitter, I mean, just to have to tweet, I feel there's something wrong with this. And if there would be a way to just share your art and to create more and somehow not lose your presence on social media, that would be great. But I don't know, maybe I'm just lazy about it and actually should take it as a work and just tweet and engage. That's also possible. Very possible. I don't know. No, I know what you mean. I mean, it's obviously up until you get to a certain point, I don't think x copy is doing GMGM like every single day. Yeah, but when he posts, I'm sure everybody's paying attention when he posts once a week or whatever he's posting. Yeah, it's just getting up to that level. Yeah, well, easy to say. Yeah, exactly. So one thing. I think you are actually the first woman that I've interviewed and just taking a step back and reflecting on the space. It's not many women that I can see at least, or that all the metrics tell us that it's just a bunch of burrows. What's that like for you? Like being a woman in the space? Have you encountered any challenges or anything of that nature? Yeah, a bunch of bros around. I couldn't say it was in any way really discriminatory or really bad. Definitely not. But, yeah, generally something keeps reminding you that just historically and for many, many different reasons of different natures, some of which are probably something to do with some structural things, there are, vast majority are men. And someone just calling online, especially once I removed my profile picture as my face and just put my art. Yeah, once in a while someone called me like, man bro and stuff like that. It's not a challenge at all. It's just a symptom of how the space is built. And majority of people from crypto and digital art and in the Internet in general are mainly men. Yeah, I don't know. Probably. I saw some female artists tweeting again on Twitter that it was, if they were men, that would be much easier for them to get seen and stuff like that maybe I'm not sure about that. I cannot think of a specific case where it would really hurt my either visibility or sales. Outside of NFT, there is this challenge of being. I mean, if I at some point decide to have family or baby or even not that, just doing other in real life stuff. Yeah, but it has to be related. Okay, I'm just rumbling. I want to say this, that, yeah, if I decide to change something in my life, in my personal life, and just fully devote my attention to family, which might be the case at some point, there is just for a few years, really probably it's over for me. I mean, I wouldn't make as much art, I don't create as often now, but then it would be really probably off the table for a few years. And that was, I think it's a main challenge. So it's like an opportunity cost of this whole thing. Not within the NFT space, but just outside the way I can. I'm right now lucky to participate, to try my best to get as much time to it as possible. But probably it might be the case in future that I wouldn't have this luxury to spend as much time. Exactly. Because I'm a woman and I will have some woman things to do. So probably that. Yeah. But again, inside of this, I was thinking a lot about the Sotheby's auction and things like that. Yeah, well, that case may be specific, but to me personally, I at least cannot recall anything really m challenging within the space because of anonymity of this mainly. I don't know if I keep, I don't hide my profile or even again use my picture. But then I think if I kept using it, maybe I would. I'm just fantasizing. Probably no significant challenges so far. Yeah. But again, I saw other women mentioning that something either, like just sales wise, male artists sell better because they are more considered as more prospective investment. Stuff like that. Yeah, I saw that discussions and some examples of that, but not. I wouldn't apply it to me so far. I mean, that's great to hear that you personally haven't felt too much of a setback other than guys just being dumb and calling you bro. Yeah, just out of habit. Again, I really don't think there are any bad intentions behind it. Just a habit which is telling about the space, of course, but there's no personal malicious intent, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, that's true. I mean, I call my own wife bro a couple of times. She does not like that. Yeah, I call daddy bro in discord server. That's hilarious. Yeah. So one thing that I think about going back to your comment about being anonymous, on one hand with the Sotheby's thing, if everyone's anonymous, then it's kind of hard to be like, okay, there is definitely intent there. It just so happened to be that everyone they selected for that auction was a male. But then I also think about going back to that Instagram comment I made earlier about the algorithm. Is it a symptom of the fact that the people curating and making these decisions are men? And so we like a certain style or things that gravitate towards us as men. And so, naturally, even if the person's anonymous, we see that art and we're like, hey, I like this. I think other people will like this. But it's like, really what you're actually saying is, I'm a guy. I think other dudes are going to like this. It's not, like, malicious. Like you said, it could just be subconscious. So that's the one thing I think about, is like, okay, maybe it's not malicious because everyone's anonymous and all that. I personally thought Cardinal, which is one of the artists featured, I personally thought it was a woman, to be quite honest, for quite some time. And then once they were like, oh, it's a bunch of dudes, I was like, oh, I guess Cardinal is a dude. No offense to cardinal if they listen. But, yeah, I just think about that, too, because I think about when I initially tried getting some of my friends in real life that are women that are into crypto, not necessarily nfts, but they're into buying Eth and buying doge and buying bitcoin and all that. I tried converting them over into the NFT space, and I showed them monsters, and they were like, oh, that's cool. Seems like something dudes would like. And I was like, oh, I never thought about it like that. I never thought that the stuff that I like would be things that guys like. I don't know. Even the name monsters, I don't know. But obviously there are women in our server and all that. But it's just some stuff that I think about sometimes where I'm, like, never looked at it that way. Yeah, could be all of it or some of it. I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to prove it, I guess, just based on the feelings about art. And I guess we thought by saying there were some specific things that are kind of bad curation and shady. Well, okay, not shady, but just probably not correct. Like using Rosa Mankin, I think her name was. I keep confusing her last name, but yeah, but she's a real pioneer in glitch art. And then they use her art to promote the auction and she is in NFT space, but they never reached out to her or I don't know the details, but definitely she wasn't on the auction. So that specific attitudes towards specific artists that happen to be women were really not good. Not a good look on their part. But yeah, just looking at the artists who made it into that auction just never crossed my mind that who are they? Except I knew Des and some other artists definitely from there, but not everyone. And I had no idea who they guess. Yeah, there's more accurate curation and more sensitive curation. Not necessarily to select n number of women and men, but just to really, if you refer to someone that is considered very crucial to this art style and she happens to be a woman, just of course you want her to be in the auction. And I think it's more about this. They didn't probably do their due diligence correctly or how to call it. Yeah, well, in the end, I don't think that something really bad happened for the artists that were initially involved because the first time I saw this, I haven't noticed what was the reason of this postponing on this auction? And I immediately thought, well, okay, Des was doing really well on that with his monster, and now what happens? But then it just postponed. So it's not canceled, it will happen later. So no one, I think, really hurt in the end. And in general, that just initiated some good discussions, I think. Yeah, I would agree with that. No one got canceled, like you said, thought the beast has been canceled. So I think they just have to rethink it. And I think I saw, like, an interesting post, someone said women played a really big role in glitch art. I think Max capacity was kind of tweeting some stuff around that. So if it's very crucial. Yeah. Especially like what you were saying. I didn't know about the banner art being by a woman. If they're going to do that, that's messed up. At least they owned up to their actions and they're trying to rectify it. Yeah, I think in the end it will turn good and it's already some good signs. I just also have to keep in mind about this possibility of to over correct stuff and actually do some damage. But I don't think it's the case in this case because, again, that auction will happen just later and better. Yeah. Exactly. All right, let's continue with some stuff about you for your project, Sova. Hopefully I said that correctly. Have you ever thought about maybe making it cross chain? Like, will it ever make its way into Eth? Yeah, I have thought about it. The idea is not fully formed, but I would like to do it, especially again with the tools. Manifold offers some claims and some reserved editions for civic collections. Of course, you can do a lot of that on Tezos, but it won't be exactly Sova, because I like to think of it as natively Tezos collection. I don't know, it's something that fits it really well. And it was the first piece, the first one, and then the rest of the collection after I regained some of my creative capacities to just create something again after this whole thing here in Ukraine happened. And it's very significant collection to me. So I think, as it is, it will stay on tezos in this format, and I will have a few of new pieces. I hope it won't be a huge collection of, like, hundred pieces, I think, but definitely 1020. Yeah, something like that. But on ETh, it will be as an addition to this in some form, I hope. I have some ideas in mind. And again, the question is this time and energy to realize all that, but. Yeah. I know what you mean, and no worries. I'm not going to keep you accountable or whatever. You should. Someone should. Someone should. Yeah. I was mostly curious just because Des does a lot of cross chain stuff. Yeah. So I was curious to see if that made its way over to you, because I think, for me, I never thought about cross chain that much, but even for my own stuff as well, I'm like, he's so forward looking and smart and creative with his cross chain stuff, and I think we're all tezzos, Maxis secretly. Yeah, definitely. But yeah, I was kind of curious about that because it is one of my favorite collections of yours. So mostly curious. What does actually Sova stand for? Or does it stand for anything? Yeah, it's in Ukrainian and Russian. I think it's an owl, like that bird. And there is no particular link from the owl and the art, at least. It's not just straightforward, but in general, I just was thinking of that initially, I planned so far collection to have this surreal and character based, but also this night and mysterious feel all through it. And I keep it in some of the pieces. Some are more light and not that at all, but, yeah, just an l and the symbol of night and wisdom and stuff like that. I just felt this little connection between what I wanted to create and just call it. And it's a short, nice word and confusing and not exactly, it's not understood at all, but by english speakers. So just adding another layer of confusion to the pieces is just like a marketing thing, maybe, I don't know. Yeah, but this is the name of this collection. Yeah, no, that's fine. I mean, not everything needs to be catered around the english speaking world. Like russian and russian based languages. Not really sure how to phrase that one, but, like, languages that borrow from Russian or there's understanding between those languages a little bit. I know there's a word for it, but I'm not remembering it well. Slavic group of languages. Yeah, there you go. Probably what you mean? That's a big group of people in the world. So cater to your people. I think I name some of my stuff in Spanish sometimes, because why not? Yeah, I never was my intention to cater something. Just maybe it's not understood and it sounds like a bunch of letters and then people get curious and look it up. Even that's just an additional probably thing I like to check out. If I see the art and it's named in the language I don't understand, I just translate it and it's always fun. Yeah, agreed. The other thing, too. So I think I've seen you mention before that you've been using AI. I know you mentioned midjourney, but I think somewhere one day recently I saw that you mentioned using Chat GPT, you were playing around with like, what is it, PJ five? Are we going to see another Fx hash or drop or anything like that? Because I know you've done two, I think, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, well, I really enjoyed doing this turn around with chat, JBD and B five libraries, because I tried it before and I know very little code. Really. No code at all, to be fair, just very basic stuff. And I tried to code something and it was basic rectangles and circles and lines and. Okay, not exactly very artistic. But then I tried to communicate to Chad GPD about what I want with that code. And just like it was about really half an hour to 40 minutes chat with GBG, and then I put that code into v five and it worked really in really fun ways and pretty close to what I intended. So just crazy to see. I don't know if something I will mint on FX Ash, and if I will, I will clearly state that this is not the code from my head, it's just experimenting with AI. It would be fair to mention because it's not like Zankan or just really amazing complex code and truly men's labor behind it. It's just AI. But yeah, it's amazing. It's really fun. For now it's at the stage where I just enjoy it and when I have time I just play around with it and see what comes out. But maybe later we'll have something to mint, to share, maybe to link it to my other collections or have it as a drop for collectors of my other collection, stuff like that. We'll see. Definitely no specific plans so far because I just researching this stuff. But my first two drops on FX Ash was also the very first one was partly generated by data, by the plots I used. The other pretty like scatter plot, but with very many dots on it and then just some layers. But ultimately it's a layered composition. I also mentioned that in the description of those pieces. So it's not code again, but with chat GBD it might change and yeah, just fun to see where it goes. I don't know yet. Yeah, no worries. Chat GPT is crazy. I mean, it's crazy how within less than an hour, even with minimal understanding of coding, you can get to what you want visually in your head. Yeah, it's a little bit like using. I remember in the early days of people and yeah, very early days of nfds, he was even explaining himself even. I would say to some journalists that, yeah, I use this preset 3d models. So what, it's like my brushes, so some artists use brush and just paints with the paint and the brush on the canvas and I just take these free and 3d models and just shade them. And this is my art. And with AI, I think generally the same applies. Just you use this crazy technology to create something. So, yeah, it's fantastic. I wish I had much more time for this just to research. Yeah, there's not enough hours in the day for sure. Yeah. And you still have a regular like in real life job and everything, right? Yeah. Gets in the way of the fun. Yeah, but my work related to information and data and to be honest, I like that too. And there are two sides. I enjoy something like really strict and logical and rational, but also art. So it's not like that. I struggle through this just time wise I am, because I need to get proper rest and get things done. Yeah, but you know. And then one last thing before we go have some fun. Do you have any collapse that you're kind of talking through that you can maybe share or talk about any potential collapse out there? Well, I have, but the other party of the collab doesn't know yet. I have an idea, but again, I like to approach people with everything fully formed and almost 100% ready from my side. So, yeah, nothing particular in the works really, but I would love to do some collabs in the future. Somehow I was not doing many collabs throughout my nft journey. I don't know why. I definitely all for it. It's fun, but I should do some for sure. Yeah, they're fun. I really liked some of the other ones that you've done. Was it with flux capacity? Oh, right. Yeah, that was good. Yeah, I like that one. Yeah. Community dropping. Yeah, I definitely should do it now that you mentioned it. Just interacting with other artists to make something. I was doing some collabs before NFts when I was mainly sharing my art on Instagram. And that's it. Yeah, definitely should do some. Yeah, it would be fun. All right, let's see. I think we're going to jump in a little bit into some of this monster world. So I know that you're deep in the monster server and the Lom series or the Life of Mon series is, I think, very special to you, I'm going to assume. Do you have a favorite life of Mon? Now, this is the hard question because they're all really great. Yeah, definitely. I feel very attached to the first one, to peace Lom number one. Obviously. When I first saw it and this whole thing happened with supporting me so much with this piece, I just regret that I had no emotions left in me back then to just really feel that joy of the whole monster community supporting me because it was like crazy hard first days and. Yeah, definitely this first lomb. Every time I look at it, just prints smile and yeah, I feel great looking at it. I probably have to at some point buy some token frame to just showcase it at all times, maybe. Yeah. But then I know actually the lemonade one is great too. It's fun. I enjoy it just to look at it and just little details. Maybe because it's detailed. That's exactly why. Just my eyes wandering on it for some time and then I don't know if it will be released or not. But the one, the rain Mon one, we have a sticker, I think in discord, probably Mike. It might be minted at some point. So. Yeah, that one smiles. Amazing. Yeah, all of them. Yeah, they are really all amazing. Yes. Rainmon needs to become a thing. Yeah. That needs to be real. It's probably my favorite one. I think it's like my Twitter banner, actually. I think I even made it my LinkedIn profile banner. I went deep. I was like, yeah, Des could be on my LinkedIn. Why not? Well, I look forward to the day someone actually sees it and knows what it is on LinkedIn and then will reach out to me. That would be a level. Yeah. On LinkedIn, it's possible. Yeah, I think. Yeah, you never know. Monsters are taking over. People recognize already board apes and stuff like that. Moonbirds. I think there should be some time where other more artist based projects also organized. Yeah. The story behind Lamb one or kind of how it all started is nuts. I'm glad that he did that. I don't know. He shouldn't have done it. But it's just still no words really, just gratitude. And it really helped me big time because we'll see. The thing is still going on. And it's amazing that this really cool art and this character also is on it in the center of it all. This little mon. Such a cool character. Really. I think we should. Yeah, we have some plushies and death should. I don't know. We just discussed that he should release some chocolate mons and just go all in on this brand and do as much as he can. But no. Yeah, it's just a great series and definitely my favorite collection by far. Yeah, definitely an underrated series. Yeah. And you could tell, too. Even like, smiles is like 26 e right now. Yeah. It's a good entryway into the Monsters universe. All right. Do you think we're ever going to do that pink ultra spawn event? No. Yeah, probably. Yes. That's the right answer. Maybe in a few years. Next year. Yeah. It seems like Defi, yet they took over. Many people are legitimately complaining that. Okay, I don't know when. Well, I think it's a wise strategy to just do all Defi related things now, once it has all this attention, I think that's all good. But, yeah, I think Des mentioned somewhere that he has a lot of stuff ready. He's just very calculated and protective, as he also mentioned about all the other work that his collectors own. He doesn't want to rush with drops. That's a great thing, but. Yeah, but we're very impatient to just see new stuff, for sure. No, I agree. He is very calculated in that and totally respect that. I say it mostly injust. And I think you're right. I think you said focusing on Defi is probably the right move with so many people that came along. But it is funny that no drops for Defi for like two days and people are ready to have a revolution or something. They demand, demand action. Sometimes funny to see, sometimes it's funny, sometimes really gets like, okay, who's on that side of the screen if it's a child, okay. You can just type this kind of stuff like when do something, just drop announcement. But if it's an adult person just demanding artist on the Internet to do stuff to pump his bags, I don't know. But yeah, people are different. Yeah. Is there anything else you want to talk about on the monster side? Well, we can talk about it for a very long time, obviously, if there will be any monsters listening this, I really enjoy every one of you in your company and have fun. I really, really appreciate this community that's probably always needs to be added from my side because I really do. Yeah, it's a fantastic community. I think that's what makes those comments kind of hard where people are like one win. It's like if they slowed down to. Take the time to get to know. The community, they would realize that it doesn't matter if the next drop isn't for like another week or two or a, like just have fun in the meantime. Yeah. Going into some speculation. Do you think so, you know how last time for was it e Denver we had the good morning mon airdropped? Yes, if I remember correctly. Do you think we will see one for NYC nft? I haven't thought of it. What do you think? Well, yes. I don't know. Yeah, maybe that would be a pink triptych pawn event. No, I don't know. Maybe something deaf related. That's what it is. Happy to be here. That's what it was. I think they had like if you find people at ETh Denver, you could get this piece. Yeah, it was rare, if I recall correctly. Or it came off like fell from the sky or something like that. It was rarible. I think I was minting, it was my very first piece on Eth by Des actually. And yeah, I was minting it here. But probably, yeah, it was collab with rarible and there was some physical minting going on too. Yeah. I don't know. Could be. Well, I think we have Christie's auction of the monster, right? And so maybe again some airdrops to bidders, maybe. That, that's my speculation and we can pressure this into doing something as well. Right? I mean, that wouldn't be a bad bet. I know people have asked too. They've been asking. They're like, hey, is that happening? He hasn't said anything that I've seen, but you never know. I hope he enjoys it, at least to some degree because, I don't know, probably there is a lot of pressure on him, too, and I wish him to be able to ignore it to the healthy degree and just to enjoy also creating and doing whatever he wants. Agreed. Yeah. He needs a vacation. It's happening now, I hope. Well, I mean, this New York, I hope they also meet up and have fun. Besides just can. I don't know how it looks really, this NfT meetup things. There are so many heaven in Europe as well, but I never been to one. Maybe I need to at some point go to NFT Paris at least just to see what people are doing. I guess they're just talking and looking at pictures, but just not at home. But there. I don't know. I have no idea. Yeah, I was trying to go this year, but I think I'll go next year or something and definitely got to see how these events work. I think it's like a good opportunity to network and meet people and stuff like that. So one of the recurring segments that I ask people is pinchos means it's like a tapa. If you ever had tapas, like spanish tapas. So with that said, what is your favorite snack? This one is for some reason hard because I don't really have very specific. I like fruit in every shape or form. I like fruits. Maybe it's not very original, but I usually eat some fruits and berries and stuff like that. Sometimes too. Unhealthy amounts. I like that. Yeah. Wow. Way to shame us all, not being healthy. Yeah, I like unhealthy stuff too. A lot like chips and stuff like that. But it's not that I snack that too often. Just fruits are my thing. Yeah. I like blueberries. Well, it's not fruit. It's a berry. Yeah. But I like blueberries a lot. When it's seasoned. It's not that much of it right now. Yeah. Some stuff like all things citrusy. Yeah. Different stuff. I'm not vegetarian or like, I eat meat as well, but yeah, just sometimes. Let's just put it like this. Fruits. Yeah. I just generally don't really enjoy or I don't talk about up myself much and my art, but actually I think I had to do it more. It just also helps to reflect on my own art and my place in nft space and things. So it was fun now. Thank you. I appreciate your time. Seriously, it was great.